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Post by dodrudon on Mar 11, 2007 2:31:58 GMT
I don't think Cha penalty is applied to saves as pally, only if positive. But with buffs yeah you'd have one less to saves than you normally would.
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Post by jersak on Mar 27, 2007 16:55:29 GMT
This might be a little off-topic, but I thought I'd post anyhow.
I've been reading up on the cleric builds and such on the forums in preparation for my very first caster cleric. I was wondering what everyone's favorite spells were. I'm still in the planning stages, but I was gonna focus on maximizing a few favorite spells. ATM Implode and Healing Circle seem like top contenders in my mind. What are your favorite spells? On a similar topic, what are your favorite cleric schools?
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Post by dodrudon on Mar 27, 2007 20:11:17 GMT
Healing Circle is affected by cleric levels, not by Heal skill or Wisdom modifier or anything.
Clerics are strong on the support side, so I'd recommend you look over the custom cleric epic spell list and pick up the ones you like, especially Miracle which and self-respecting cleric has (just like all druids MUST have shunt). Abjuration is a good school to focus in due to the benefits the focuses give to your spells.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Mar 27, 2007 20:24:51 GMT
Personally like fire and magic domains since it gives me energy buffer and stoneskin. As for spells, I like harm (my favorite spell of all time), destruction, earthquake, implosion, and inflicts for the rest.
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Post by phalthallus on Mar 28, 2007 12:36:52 GMT
Healing Circle is affected by cleric levels, not by Heal skill or Wisdom modifier or anything. Actually.... Hence the reason most clerics need 12 int, to max Heal, Discipline, Concentration, and Tumble
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Post by Trazik on Apr 5, 2007 2:42:12 GMT
I am thinking about making a Kenku caster cleric (C38-P1-M1). Any tips on feat selection (I have ideas) and where I might find the subrace (PM only plz - it is a cesret after all) would be very much appreciated.
As for ability points, I am trying to decide between 2 sets. The difference is Maxxed Wisdom (22 instead of 20) versus higher HP and Fort Save (Con = 16 versus 12):
Option 1: Str 9-1=8 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 13-1=12 Wis 16+4=20 Cha 12
Option 2: Str 9-1=8 Dex 8 Con 12 Int 13-1=12 Wis 18+4=22 Cha 12
Opinions solicited.
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Post by dodrudon on Apr 5, 2007 2:47:56 GMT
I went 10 Cha, 14 Con, and max Wis. LL areas are balanced for power builds, ie builds with max stat for max DCs.
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Post by Trazik on Apr 5, 2007 13:23:35 GMT
I had overlooked that combination. Not bad either.
On the subject of feats, I have heard it said that one should try to get Epic Spell Focus in 4 schools. I understand that this means 3 sets of SF+GSF+ESF feats and 1 book.
Clearly, for a caster cleric, Evocation is a high priority since most of the damage spells are in this school. Enchantment is also a priority (for GMW spell). So that leaves 2 more. I guess the "book" selection tends to be either Divination (for Miracle) or Transmutation (for Aegis). Are there strong feelings about which may be better? I am guessing opinions are largely 50-50.
And so what would be advisable for the 3rd set of SF/GSF/ESF feats?
Is it advisable to only take 1 LSF feat?
Many thanks in advance for the advice.
helmates
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Post by cathedralmaster on Apr 5, 2007 18:05:42 GMT
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Post by Trazik on Apr 5, 2007 18:24:30 GMT
Is it possible to get more than 1 of the custom epic spells? I guess that's a bit of a silly question, considering you can get several of the normal epic spells, but you have to spend feats to get the normal ones ... do the custom ones require spending feats too? Or do you get them by completing quests/finding items/locations in the module?
Also, I do not see people selecting Combat Casting and Improved Combat Casting. I thought these might be necessary, but if people are not taking them, then I suppose they must not be necessary. Is this true?
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Post by Yomi on Apr 5, 2007 18:27:48 GMT
On the subject of feats, I have heard it said that one should try to get Epic Spell Focus in 4 schools. I understand that this means 3 sets of SF+GSF+ESF feats and 1 book. That would be my understanding. It's hard to get 4 schools without Half-Celestial or giving up something very useful. One of my FA casters gave up great wisdom 9 and 10 to get 4 schools. This is certainly not ideal. You need evocation including Legendary Focus. It's critical to success of your implosions and earthquakes. In my opinion you need Divination for Miracle, as Miracle is just such a hugely useful spell (too bad it no longer stuns things). I have always used the book for this one since the school offers little benefit in itself unlike most of the others. For a traditional cleric, I think Enchant (for Girding and +13 GMW) and Abjuration (for Aegis) are great choices. Both are very useful to the party and to yourself. For Hells I suspect Aegis would offer less benefit (it's huge for Sssys, Illithid boss rooms, and DB). Remembering this is my opinion, do not take Transmutation -- the +16 GMW doesn't last long and isn't worth it. Also do not take Illusion -- the Visage of Doom isn't worth it according to most of those who have taken it. Necromancy for Eternal Return would be very nice if you plan on clericing in Pyramid or Hells -- depends on your style. Annhililation can be pretty effective also, but seems more useful if you have another cleric covering some of the other epics (e.g. girding, aegis). Leg focus in evocation. I don't see much benefit for any others for a caster cleric.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Apr 5, 2007 18:49:46 GMT
Also, I do not see people selecting Combat Casting and Improved Combat Casting. I thought these might be necessary, but if people are not taking them, then I suppose they must not be necessary. Is this true? As long as your concentration is high enough and you use defensive casting mode, the combat casting feats really aren't worth taking as far as clerics go.
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Post by Yomi on Apr 5, 2007 19:09:45 GMT
Is it possible to get more than 1 of the custom epic spells? I guess that's a bit of a silly question, considering you can get several of the normal epic spells, but you have to spend feats to get the normal ones ... do the custom ones require spending feats too? Or do you get them by completing quests/finding items/locations in the module? We're skirting secrets that cannot be discussed on the forums. Answering what I can, -There are 8 custom Epic Arcane Spells in this module, one for each school. You must have 25 levels of palemaster, sorceror, or wizard in order to learn these spells, be level 40, have the epic spell focus feat in the spell's school, and find someone or something to teach you the spell. -There are also 8 Epic Druid and 8 Epic Cleric Spells, requiring 25 levels in the class and 40 character levels. As with the Arcan Epics, you must find someone or something to teach you the spell. -There are 8 books, one for each school, that can add an Epic Spell Focus to your character, without needing to take the lower feats Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus. You may only ever use one of these books, however, so choose carefully. If you have epic spell focus in a school, you are eligible to get the special HG epic spell. Theoretically you could get all 8. Wizards and Druids typically get 4-5, Clerics and Sorcs are typically doing 3 or 4. So it costs you 3 feats to become eligible for an HG epic spell. However for many of these schools those 3 feats bought you something useful in addition (e.g. transmute on a mage lets you keen weapons, abjuration on a cleric gives you a very nice resist elements spell). Once you have the focus, there is someone or something that gives you the epic spell. You need to find someone in game to help, or go searching for yourself (you could ask for a few hints). It's a pain, especially in the low levels in the desert when sands and sanders are around you, but caster clerics are feat poor so I've always chosen to not take these feats. I have defensive casteng mode hotkeyed. Most of the time it works fine. Sure it's nice to have these feats and my mages all have them. But they seem less necessary on the clerics, and they really need other feats more.
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Post by illandous on Apr 9, 2007 13:46:23 GMT
Prop's on this thread as I'm about to go start a Cleric and I'm about to go get Kenku (Have stuff, just need to get it) But I'm curious on how Kenku is better than Aasimar as Aasimar gives you +2 to CHR that translates to +1 for all saves right? Kenku has the extra feat, is that really the whole deal here on this? Breaking it down on +'s and cons Aasimar +1 to saves +2 to wis +2 to chr and Darkvision as a free feat Opposed to Kenku that has -1 int WIS +4, free feat: Lightning Reflexes. free feat: Spell Focus - Abjuration Are the feats really that tight on the cheese cleric? Assuming Paly over Fighter. Or with Kenku is it better to go Fighter over Pally?
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Post by borges on Apr 9, 2007 17:12:09 GMT
Kenku has 2 extra feats and +2 wis over Aasimar. Feats on cleric are very tight, especially if you want (i) decent saves, (ii) 4 epics, and (iii) max implode DC.
For reference, starting stats for my human Kenku caster cleric, 38/1M/1P (after subrace adjustments): STR 8 DEX 8 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 22 CHA 12
I disagree that 12 INT is necessary, since the only skills you really care about maxing in LLs are Concentration and Heal. This build ends up with 45 Heal at lvl 60; the 10 INT lets me boost CHA by 2 (resulting in +1 to all saves). I'd rather be 18 points short of max Heal than have -1 to saves and have 25 points left over at the end.
Cheers, Perin
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