Max attack/damage tank with saves

[Naeblis]

Assuming the lack of any subbies beyond non-secret and Mino, Thri-Kreen and Kenku, can someone point me in the direction of a nice build for a max number of attacks/damage tank with survivable hps and saves reguardless of equipment as I have not been here long enough for uber gear?

Thanks!

[chainlink]

Mino RDD 30/Paladin 8/Bard 2 using a scythe if you want a big damage output with a good ab half decent saves. Several build options have been posted.

[Naeblis]

But isn't AB and # of attacks per round weak on RDD as compared to others?

[starlandra]

it would be your typical 4 attacks +1 for haste and the ab should be good since they are str based. WM is best for ab, but in legendary levels they skills suck in my opinion. Maybe fighter wm with a splash of monk at the end? I made a mino fighter wm hs once and liked it alot but the lack of evasion pasted me in beholder area.

So prob fighter 10, wm 7, fighter 10, wm 9, monk 3, and fighter 1 keeping the fighter higher so you can keep it as your control class. The 16 wm for a bonus +2 to ab, 3 monk for the speed, evasion and tumble dump or take 2 rogue (for evasion and tumble dump) and dump another level back into fighter. Either way you can get hone weapon later for more damage.

With a mino you can do this using a tower shield and a scythe at the same time. The weapon master will make you crit on 16-20 x5 which is pretty sick. That is what I would recommend

[starlandra]

or maybe take 10 wm before level 20 as they give more to your reflex save. I didn't actually try to build this to test but just was typing lol.

[Yomi]

naeblis said:

But isn't AB and # of attacks per round weak on RDD as compared to others?

The short answer: No.

RDD's, especially the Scythe-using WM's, do massive damage output for tanks. The ones I've looked at have 4 base attacks which is the maximum. The ab gets a boost from all the strength bonuses RDD's get. It's not bad -- you'll be in the 60s to 70s. Saves for most builds are more than adequate for non-Hells. For Hells it's a little trickier but it's doable, especially if you do the Paladin version. A Kurai RDD/WM was one of the first two tanks to finish level 9 in Hells, so it's quite workable.

[Yomi]

naeblis said:

Isn't RDD AB and # of attacks per round low compared to others? How about maxing AB and # of attacks per round?

I'm sure you could make an RDD with a poor number of attacks per round. But for the Nth time on this thread, just don't be a moron and you'll get the maximum number of attacks per round. Please use search, and actually read the forums instead of just asking the same questions over and over.

The HGWiki Builds page has links to a huge number of builds. These usually show some indication of ab. The 50RDD/8Pal/2Bard build shown there says it ends with a 74 ab once you have a +13 GMW. That's very good.

People keep telling you RDD because (1) you don't have many races and Mino lends itself to str tanks while you don't have dexer races, and Mino is human only which rules out DDs, (2) you want high damage which makes one lean toward WM, scythe, or two-handed, (3) you want high hp which an RDD will excel at, and (4) you want survability without great equipment, which again points toward RDD since you get a great AC boost, fire immunity, and ability to use Pentavite Shield and Belt of Bestial Resiliance -- these are huge survivability helps in LL areas. It also rules out two-handed.

I've made a mino fighter/WM. It was great fun in everything up through the immo as he whallops everything with his scythe. But the saves and lack of evasion made him a real pain in LL areas. If I wanted the same experience I'd choose an RDD now as they get pretty much everything the standard fighter/WM did but also gain 400+ hp, fire immunity, and +7 or more AC. They're certainly not the end-all of str tanks by any means, but it all helps if you don't have great equipment.

[Naeblis]

Sorry, was having Blackberry problems, hence the double post. Forgive me my moronness!

Final question: is the paladin/bard/rdd better being white half-dragon over mino?

[bort]

naeblis said:

Final question: is the paladin/bard/rdd better being white half-dragon over mino?

"Minotaur" (secret subrace) - requires Human (changes Appearance)
STR +4, DEX -2, WIS +2, CHA -4, free feat: Power Attack, increases character size to large, speaks Minotaur

"Half-Dragon - White" - requires Human (adds wings)
STR +2, DEX +1, INT -2, 65% immune cold, 150% vulnerable fire, speaks Draconic

Assuming you went for 8 Pal 2 Bard 30 Rdd or similar, you'd gain large size for having 30 levels of Rdd, so size isn't a factor.*

Compared to a plain human, "Minotaur" has +2 AB, -1 Reflex save, +1 Will save, and an effective -2 to all saves on top of that because of the decrease in Charisma (Paladins have their charisma modifier added to all saves). Plus you get free Power Attack.

Compared to a plain human "Half-Dragon - White" has +1 AB, -2 INT (fewer skill points) and 65% immunity to cold (the fire vulnerability is overwritten at 10 levels of RDD at which point you become completely immune to fire).

Personally, I'd take Half-Dragon - White every time, because the extra cold immunity is so helpful, and although you'd have 1 less AB than the Minotaur version, your saves would be higher. Even with -2 to INT, it's still possible to have plenty of skill points, because of the RDD INT boost.

*Going with a medium subrace like Half-Dragon - White and a large weapon does mean that you either have to use your chosen large weapon with no shield until you achieve RDD large size at 30 levels of RDD or use a medium or small sized weapon with a shield until then. I wouldn't recommend the no-shield option.