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Post by dragonlance007 on Sept 28, 2006 19:50:45 GMT
All I mean by "I can't take monk until the end if I dont start with 11 WIS" is because I NEED to start Paladin then go mostly CoT ending with one monk for skill dump and evasion.
You could start with lower WIS if you wanted to take 2 or 3 lvls of Monk, 1 at the start one at 20'ish and one after 37. You would get a speed increase, have a little more efficient abilities to start and +2 to mind spell saves. Plus you AC would be better from lvl 20'ish to 37 because you could dump points into Tumble at 20'ish... Could be fun to toy with this.
Yuan-Ti would definitely be the best non-secret subby to use for this build. I will have to test one sometime and post my results, as well as test the 3 monk lvl option...
-DragonLance_007
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Post by flynn01 on Sept 28, 2006 19:53:58 GMT
Yeah, I realized that from my first post about Fallen Angel. The only change I can see to your original build is get dex to 10, leave int at 9 since the skill points aren't needed.
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Post by dragonlance007 on Sept 28, 2006 19:57:36 GMT
Skill points are needed for Disc and Tumble to be max. And having some left over for heal, or armor/weapon crafting or whatever else you choose is very nice to have.
Dex can be boosted easily to give 2 more ac, no need to start at 10 and waste skill points IMO.
-DragonLance_007
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Post by dragonlance007 on Sept 28, 2006 20:46:46 GMT
I just did a test starting out Monk so you can start with a lower WIS and have better CON.
I went 1 Monk, 9 Paladin, 10 CoT, 1 Monk, 18 CoT, 1 Monk.
Ended up with 1 less AB, but got to add called shot b/c Monk gets cleave for free. Fort and reflex save were better by 2 and 3 respectively and you will net 40 more HP.
Plus get the monk speed increase (always nice). Also, more skill points so concentration can be maxed and you will still have some left to help with armor/weapon crafting. Speaking of skill, taking a monk lvl at 21 lets you dump skills into tumble then for more AC in the middle of the build.
All in all, I think this is a nice variation, but the -1 to AB is hard to take, even with the other goodies. The last thing this build needs is less AB. Oh well.
-DragonLance_007
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Post by Bakchuda on Sept 28, 2006 22:33:15 GMT
Also, don't forget Baseborn Titan, another great subrace for this build. Of course, it's UR as well, but might as well list it for those that have it.
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Post by mrslayer on Sept 29, 2006 15:35:52 GMT
I reckon a better build is 29pal/10 cot/1monk, progression
19pal,10cot,10pal,1monk.
Keep an exotic weapon focus and extend spell. Loose all the save bonus feats and other naff ones. Get more later feats. More and better spells (you should be able to do GMW+13 with book).
Quick question on stats. Obviously I need CHA to unlock greater smite and for divine might/shield. but how much do I need above that? Is it worth boosting STR after getting 26 CHA or keep on STR. I have all stats plus 10 ish greater stats in my build to play with, how many need to be cha?
Base stats are as per this build (CHA18, ST16).
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Post by dragonlance007 on Sept 29, 2006 19:33:53 GMT
hhmmm I am definately going to test this level progression tonight. I originally thought about going that route, but in the end I wanted a very nice Divine Wrath and lots of feats, so I went with mainly CoT lvls.
You say you get more feats later on with your progression. How is that? CoT gets a bonus feat every 2 lvls like fighter and pally every 3... But I bet I dont get that many more feats and the spells could be worth it... I dunno, I will have to check and see how the spells measure up to the better Divine Wrath.
About stats. 25 CHA is req for Greater smite. I went up to 26 to get one more modifier point. Everything else after that should go to STR in my opinion, you will want a better AB. 26 CHA 38 with items will be plenty for Divine Might/Shield and for Smites.
-Dragonlance_007
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Post by dragonlance007 on Sept 29, 2006 20:08:51 GMT
I couldn't wait for tonight to test the new level progression suggested by mr slayer. It is very nice indeed. I was able to get all the same epic feat, plus Great Smiting 7 while only losing out on some pre epic feats ( I chose not to take Lightning Reflex, Iron will, Pw Att, Cleave, Gr8 Cleave.) And with extend spell and also being able to take SF Enchantment and GSF Enchantment I ended up with a +11 GMW and with all of the buffs going that i could cast on myself and my weapon I had an AB of +68 at lvl 40 with some very nice buffed damage. New Greater Smite at lvl 40 did 624 damage And a regualr Smite Evil hit with only a regular sword with my own buffs on it did about 340 damage. Your saves will be about 10 lower and you lose out on some feats that really dont mean all that much. Thanks for the suggestion mr slayer. I think I smell an UPDATE in the air... -DragonLance_007
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Post by mrslayer on Sept 29, 2006 21:43:01 GMT
Dont take spell focus ench. Use a book later to get leg spell focus. 2 extra feats.......
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Post by flynn01 on Sept 29, 2006 22:41:59 GMT
Does the book give you all three feats or the quivalent bonus to GMW?
The book is a little confusing. It says you get +1 to GMW per feat, so one interpretation is reading the book should only count as one feat?
Does it work differently?
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Post by dragonlance007 on Sept 29, 2006 22:46:20 GMT
I was wondering that too.
And the book you mean for this is the one that gives Epic Spell Focus Enchantment, right? Not LL SF Enchantment, don't think there are books for LL SF....
And if its the book for ESF Enchantment then wont that only give you a +1 to your GMW. I thought the books were mainly used for caster classes to allow them to gain access to another of the new Epic Spells....
If that is the case then taking the SF and GSF feats and then using the book would be the best option, right?
-DragonLance_007
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Post by azrael on Sept 29, 2006 23:51:15 GMT
The books essentially give you 3 feats, spell focus, greater focus, and epic focus. So your best bet here would be to wait for 40, then read the book. The book will add 3 to your gmw. Then you could take LL focus enchantment for an extra +1 to gmw.
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Post by dragonlance007 on Sept 30, 2006 0:46:59 GMT
The books essentially give you 3 feats, spell focus, greater focus, and epic focus. So your best bet here would be to wait for 40, then read the book. The book will add 3 to your gmw. Then you could take LL focus enchantment for an extra +1 to gmw. Wonderful. That is what I was hoping to hear. Thanks Azrael. I will be updating this build soon then. -DragonLance_007
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Post by dragonlance007 on Sept 30, 2006 11:13:57 GMT
UPDATED
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Post by mrslayer on Sept 30, 2006 12:19:19 GMT
My slight adjustments to mk 2 build. Loose luck of heros, tack extra turning there. You only get (I believe) 6 feats after 40 so replace it with 1 of the leg feats.
Stat wise I went ST 16 DX 8 CO 14 WIS 12(17) INT 8 (ONLY NEED DISC AND TUMBLE. POST 40 WILL PROLLY PUMP HEALING) CHA 16(18)
Still not sure when to stop pumping CHA. assuming +12 equipment is +14 bonus enough. Will my smite actually hit anything......
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