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Post by electryx on Aug 30, 2006 9:41:43 GMT
Just a question on party etiquette:
If a person leaves a party at some point before a run has ended, what rights do they have to the loot?
(A person tonight logged from a desert run with a 35 rare weapon and I'm curious what the consenus is)
-e
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Post by whitenoise on Aug 30, 2006 12:06:41 GMT
I generally use the following approach, but this is only a personal view, as opposed to a set of rules for imposing on others. - If I join at the start, and stay until the end, then I participate in the loot split normally.
- If I join a group, but leave before the finish, I gain only XP, no loot.
- If I join a group part way through a run, then I join on a XP-only or XP+loot basis (stated clearly at the start if XP-only). If I have joined on XP-only basis, then I don't participate in the loot split, except for any cash left over from the sale of junk.
This seems to me to be both a fair way to behave and (key for me) very simple to implement as a personal code of behaviour. Any comments? Vrok the Barbarian
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Post by chainlink on Aug 30, 2006 12:18:54 GMT
I generally use the following approach, but this is only a personal view, as opposed to a set of rules for imposing on others. - If I join at the start, and stay until the end, then I participate in the loot split normally.
- If I join a group, but leave before the finish, I gain only XP, no loot.
- If I join a group part way through a run, then I join on a XP-only or XP+loot basis (stated clearly at the start if XP-only). If I have joined on XP-only basis, then I don't participate in the loot split, except for any cash left over from the sale of junk.
This seems to me to be both a fair way to behave and (key for me) very simple to implement as a personal code of behaviour. Any comments? Vrok the Barbarian Pretty much the attitude I take unless I'm playing with folks I know really well in which case we tend to be more flexible and roll for UR stuff when people leave. Its easier when we all have most of the standard gear as nobody is bothered about non UR items.
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Post by versengeteriks on Aug 30, 2006 12:23:43 GMT
Another peice of Party Etiquette is to rez your party members Before you log off. I put it down to the guys i was with being noobs and not understanding hg.
In tower (about char level 11) we all died, i logged out then in with a higher lvl toon, rezzed the entire party. then as i was asking for them to rez my dead toon on my return, 2 of them logged off and the other tp'd to town, for ages! in the end rather than fugue i just didnt bother logging back in that server with my dead toon.
So to summarise, if someone is kind enuf to rez your toon, dont run off. wait til they log in the dead toon and rez them back. having no rez scrolls to hand is no excuse as anyone who logs in a higher level toon to rez your ass will normally have a spare or too to give you so you can return the favour.............
here endeth the rant! trix
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Post by whodat1 on Aug 30, 2006 16:06:04 GMT
Same as stealing it from the armoire imo. Might have been an emergency, maybe lost connection, forgot, etc, but I would look for the person and ask later. Best avoided by clearly defining who the banker is so at least when the banker logs with the whole partys loot everyone is angry.
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Post by Ironfang on Aug 30, 2006 16:54:52 GMT
Depending on the type of run you are on you could agree when starting that there will be a loot split at a specific time. I have asked for this when I know I need to log off at exactly 10:00pm. Usually you can just find a loot bag during the run and split right there without disrupting run too much.
I know many vets that would be against this but I do think its fair that if I spend 2 or 3 hours working on a run and cant stay the extra hour or so to finish I should be entitled to something. It should not be that those that can afford to be logged on all day get all the good loot.
If you were a contibuting member for a considerable amount of time and increasing the % chance of finding rares and URs I don't think it is unreasonable. You cant just up and say in middle of run "I gtg lets split" it needs to be agreed ahead of time.
Another unorthodox method I have done when it is a small group of say 4 or less and we know we cant stay on for too long. Is to take turns opening each loot bag and you get what you pull out. Very random as one person may get a lot luckier but its better than logging out with nothing to show for it and heck you might even be the lucky one.
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Post by jillybean on Aug 30, 2006 19:47:09 GMT
I generally use the following approach, but this is only a personal view, as opposed to a set of rules for imposing on others. - If I join at the start, and stay until the end, then I participate in the loot split normally.
- If I join a group, but leave before the finish, I gain only XP, no loot.
- If I join a group part way through a run, then I join on a XP-only or XP+loot basis (stated clearly at the start if XP-only). If I have joined on XP-only basis, then I don't participate in the loot split, except for any cash left over from the sale of junk.
This seems to me to be both a fair way to behave and (key for me) very simple to implement as a personal code of behaviour. This is pretty much what I follow too.
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Post by phalthallus on Aug 30, 2006 19:59:36 GMT
Another peice of Party Etiquette is to rez your party members Before you log off. I put it down to the guys i was with being noobs and not understanding hg. In tower (about char level 11) we all died, i logged out then in with a higher lvl toon, rezzed the entire party. then as i was asking for them to rez my dead toon on my return, 2 of them logged off and the other tp'd to town, for ages! in the end rather than fugue i just didnt bother logging back in that server with my dead toon. So to summarise, if someone is kind enuf to rez your toon, dont run off. wait til they log in the dead toon and rez them back. having no rez scrolls to hand is no excuse as anyone who logs in a higher level toon to rez your ass will normally have a spare or too to give you so you can return the favour............. here endeth the rant! trix I'll have to apologize on the part of my wife and I on this one (we were the two who logged off). First, we didn't have any rez's or raise deads (IIRC) - we are for the most part new characters with relatively little money to spare. Second, apparently this was a misunderstanding, because we said we were AFK, you went and spawned the rest of the room (who quickly came and killed all of us). While we were AFK, you came back and rez'd us with a higher character. Just as you were rezzing us, I got back to my computer. It was my understanding that you got back in with your old character (I thought the 3rd person in our party raised you), because we then cleared the rest of that floor with your help. I said I had to leave then, as we had company stop by out of the blue, and I made it abundantly clear we were leaving, and you said that was fine, and said thanks for the run. I never saw you make any mention of needing someone to rez your other character - I'm fairly sure your character was alive at that point. Unless maybe you mean later (when we left you had just invited 2 new people) on that trip, or another altogether. But from what you said, I'm guessing it was us, and if so, I apologize. I still feel certain that your lower level toon was alive when we left, but if I'm mistaken, then I really am sorry for the problem we caused.
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Post by Yomi on Aug 30, 2006 20:25:02 GMT
Vrok's list in the second post is the way I have almost always played and seen used. It is not unreasonable to request a loot split or try to bargain (e.g. "Anyone object if I take the L35 katana as my share since i'm leaving just a little early and have been here for most of the run?"), but this is really requesting a favor.
In the particular case, the person was not the bank and grabbed a few loots and had to be prodded to give it back to the bank. He was using the weapon found and had not given it back. Not an emergency, said he had to go to sleep, and we were being unreasonable in not understanding his schedule. We asked that he either give all loot to the bank or just stay for the one remaining map of the desert and split normally. His reply was "No, I am taking it as my share of loot. It's not fair to not get anything." Conversation repeated, then he logged. Now realistically the item here is not going to get most desert travellers excited, and I'm chalking it up to being new. I think this is a good thread and the particular case isn't that important.
As ironfang pointed out, it isn't always fair, and I've been known to make will saves vs. sleep to keep slogging along once we find something nice. But that list is the way most people expect, so it would be wise to mention something ahead of time if you know you have to leave so it won't surprise people when you do request a loot split (or UR/good item split to save time). If someone joined a desert group and said they could play 3 hours and could we split the good loot at that time if we hadn't finished, I'd probably agree as that's quite reasonable. On the flip side, it is unfair is to get to the end of a long desert run with a random party, then someone says "oh surprise, this is really a DB run, so get ready for another 4 hours if you want any of the loot."
I've seen people join a run relatively early with the agreement of xp only, then be a major contributor. In those circumstances I will often ask the other party members if they can be changed to loot status. Sometimes it may be a little painful, but it's fair. But that's up to the party members, since the agreement was xp only. I've often seen desert parties have new party members be xp-only if they join after the ruined temple, but that's just a vague guide.
Speaking of etiquette, there are a few people that play two characters at once. In every case I have seen these people departy or otherwise exclude all but one of their characters from the loot split. I've even been on a couple runs where I've actually asked that they take two loot picks because they honestly contributed two (or more) character's worth. But they never took me up on it. So I'd say the expectations are that there is one loot pick per player, and anything different ought to be joined with that known.
Yeah, on rezzes -- if I'm thinking, I'll run over to where the immo rezzer's character was and wait with a rez ready. I know it gives me warm fuzzies when someone does that for me, so I try to return the favor (though admit to not being on the ball all the time). It's nice playing with party members that watch portraits for rests and skulls, though I couldn't manage this for my first few characters. On a similar theme, if a mage is so generous as to give you a perma buff, it's only polite to have the player list open and give them an invite asap when they relog.
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Post by gruntgruntson on Aug 30, 2006 21:10:59 GMT
I have been meaning to start a thread on the subject of (Not So-) Common Courtesy. Lets see if I can summarise: Request rather than demand. (this goes for loot, resurrections, buffs, invites and anything else another party-member/player/DM may provide) Remember your Ps and Qs. (Sad that people have to be reminded of this) Try to make sure agreements are made BEFORE a situation arises (loot, or XP_only invites, loot-splits, inviting more ppl onto a run, special items/situations (thinking sphinx, AA runes, class secrets when more than one person of that class).) Make sure new invitees are aware of any non-standard agreements (e.g. "We're headed for Sphinx for Bob. He's out of the normal loot split" or "This is Spike's 'Get my Thri-Kreen book Run. Loot-split as normal otherwise", "Mage runes from AA count as your pick of loot" or any other agreement made before run.) Do not go AFK for more than 2 minutes taking leadership crown with you! Do not go AFK without letting others know, and preferably an ETA for returning. Do not be surprised or complain when your "AFK a moment" followed by 1/2 hour of no activity gets you kicked from party. Do be grateful when you get re-invited. Resurrect your party members. If you are out of res/raise, let people know - they may have spare, and will thank you for using them! Let casters rest if needed ... and let them buff afterwards. Hmmm ... this is getting less of a summary, more of a rant. Moral of story: Communication. Co-operation. Manners.
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Post by jillybean on Aug 30, 2006 22:56:18 GMT
Yomi made an excellent post! It is everything I would have said! Request rather than demand. (this goes for loot, resurrections, buffs, invites and anything else another party-member/player/DM may provide) I agree with Grunts post too, expecially this point. There is nothing I hate more then someone shouting "Tower group invite!" If you want an invite, send a tell and ask nicely. Don't demand by shouting across the whole server! And if your sending a tell for help start off with a "Hey, sorry to bother you, are you busy?" Rather then demanding the answer to your question without so much as a hello. If the person doesn't get back to you right away, wait a few minutes or send a tell to a party member. Nothing is more frustrating then being spammed with tells while you are swarmed with mobs trying to rez party members.
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Post by archmage on Aug 31, 2006 0:33:39 GMT
Personally Jilly, when people ask me questions I'd rather they just ask them, instead of asking permission to ask them. Reason being? 99% of my time playing on the server, I'm in a high level, frantic area where my immortals can typically respawn if they die. If i have time i'll answer the question. If not, my response is not now. Problem comes in when people dont understand that I'm literally clicking attack heal attack heal and cant type a response without jeopardizing myself and any party members depending on me. So just ask the question and save me from saying yes or no, and know I'll get back to you as soon as circumstances permit.
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Post by whodat1 on Aug 31, 2006 0:50:10 GMT
I always smirk at this whole "im in the party and i gets whats comin to me" attitude. Its this same mindset that causes some vets to throw up their hands at it and group with people they know, which is a sad outcome. No one who actually has the character and experience appropriate for the zone say these things, its always some person that greed has got the better of. Its a matter of courtesy and respect, through humility that will make you a respected player in any *orpg, not just HG.
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Post by jillybean on Aug 31, 2006 1:54:22 GMT
Personally Jilly, when people ask me questions I'd rather they just ask them, instead of asking permission to ask them. Reason being? 99% of my time playing on the server, I'm in a high level, frantic area where my immortals can typically respawn if they die. If i have time i'll answer the question. If not, my response is not now. Problem comes in when people dont understand that I'm literally clicking attack heal attack heal and cant type a response without jeopardizing myself and any party members depending on me. So just ask the question and save me from saying yes or no, and know I'll get back to you as soon as circumstances permit. I think we are both trying to achieve the same thing here - not being bugged in the middle of a hectic fight.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 31, 2006 2:25:23 GMT
Stickied.
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