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Post by nate on Sept 18, 2009 19:49:45 GMT
I'd like to follow one of your builds, either Ty's or Sabre's, but both of the writeups aren't complete enough for me to follow them exactly.
Sabre's ability points don't add up, there are still points left over. I also could not take weapon focus: unarmed at 1st level.
On Ty's build, it doesn't tell me when to take each class. I did 10 druid lvls first, but then I couldn't take skill focus: animal empathy on my 11th lvl (shifter). I also don't know how many skill points to use when, as i have to put points into parry and discipline and I need to know how many to save up.
I don't make my own builds as I'm obviously noobish when it comes to planning and things. Thanks for any help you can give me.
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Post by maljin on Sept 18, 2009 21:57:45 GMT
Weapon foci require a bab of 1+ and as druid is a 3/4 bab class, they get bab 0 at first level. I'd take toughness at first level instead and put off the weapon focus into level 12+ as that one point of ab won't make a big difference at these early levels: There are feats (like toughness or the save feats) that are more useful at while leveling to 20 and which you should get asap.
As for skill points: it's quite easy to calculate them: druid/shifter and ranger all get 4 points per level + int mod (+1 for human). Multiply this with 4 for the first level: Both builds should get 441 skill points until level 60 which you should spend in the following way:
63 animal empathy 43 parry (at druid levels and at 40 when you take the ranger level) 43 discipline (at level 40 as above) 60 tumble (only put in points after you've got lsa: tumble and stop at lvl 57) 63 hide (only on shifter and ranger levels) 63 listen (same as hide) 63 craft armor 43 points remain for concentration and craft weapon
I'm not that sure how many points in each are recommended but I'd probably put 20 in craft weapon and 23 into concentration. I'd probably put more into concentration (or everything) if I'd chosen outsider/undead shapes as they've got one or more spell casting forms (and imho their melee forms are not that interesting, so losing a point of ab doesn't hurt as much as it would for a dragon shifter).
Skill point saving: I'd save the craft armor points until you're sure you can max parry and disc at level 40. Craft armor won't have an effect (aside from crafting your armor) until you can reach 40+ points anyway, so you can save the points for more important things at low levels. Make sure you've got enough points for tumble at level 43: If you can max tumble at this level, you'll get 9 ac which is huge.
As for leveling: With my shifters I've always taken 5 druid levels, then all ten shifter levels, then back to druid...this is the fastest way to acquire the shifter abilities and most of them can be used with great success at these levels.
But do note that skill focus animal empathy can only be taken on a druid or ranger level even if shifters can spend points in it as well (unlike every other class except those mentioned). If you want to make sure you don't screw it up, take it at level 1 or 3. If you've missed it by then and follow the way to level your toon I took, you can't take it until level 18 when you'll take druid levels again.
maljin
[edit:] ability points: sabre's build has indeed four more points to spend: You can put them into int for another skill, split them between con and cha for more hp and a tiny boost to animal empathy or put them into cha altogether for a bigger boost (still not as much as the skill focus, but imho for shifters every point of animal empathy counts).
I hope this post is not to hard to follow; I did jump from topic to topic quite a few times (skills to feats to level order to skills to feats again) so I could answer the questions in the order they were asked above.
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Post by greven on Sept 18, 2009 21:57:56 GMT
Nate: You can go Druid 1st-5th, Shifter 6-11, Druid 12th to take SF: AE at 12th (you can only take SF: ae on a druid or ranger level).
You want to take the ranger level at 40 for skill point usage. You will need 86 points for full parry and discipline (43 in each).
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Post by nate on Sept 19, 2009 1:53:19 GMT
thank you for the help. I'll try to follow your tips and follow the build. When i built my halfling death a long long time ago the person who posted it actually wrote what i should take in terms of skill points and feats at every level, so I guess i was spoiled.
I messed up my cleric by not having enough spellcraft for 2 greater ruins, so I'm waiting for double demi to reincarnate :/
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Post by jazzadellic on Nov 21, 2009 0:56:11 GMT
I Discovered you must take skill focus animal empathy during a druid or ranger level only (not shifter). Apparently mistake/bug courtesy of Bioware.
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Post by bort on Jan 27, 2010 14:15:30 GMT
Any tips on good weapon choice for a non-melee shifter? I don't plan to hit anything ever with mine, so damage types are irrelevant but other bonuses would be a big plus. An obvious one is Hera's Gift (90% fire imm) but being a Halberd it takes up my shield slot too and i'd be better off with the 100% fire flag (or any of the other flags).. I heard rumour of a 100% imm elec sword called Crystal Sword or something similar... does that still exist in the mod?
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Post by borges on Jan 27, 2010 14:46:15 GMT
If you haven't used the WIS arti (for permanent fear immunity), there's a longsword that drops on the Formian run that gives Imm: Fear. You'll need the martial weapon proficiency, which is an issue if you took Monk instead of Ranger and aren't an Anarch.
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Post by maljin on Jan 27, 2010 15:29:49 GMT
There's a nice staff in the Gaobin Castle with some stats and immunities, heavy armor prof and spell immunity: blindness/deafness. You could also look for a nicely randomized ur druid staff; not because of the spell slots but you might find one that has other (added) props useful with a certain gear setup.
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Post by bort on Jan 27, 2010 19:33:29 GMT
I heard rumour of a 100% imm elec sword called Crystal Sword or something similar... does that still exist in the mod? Anyone heard of this? One player mentioned this in game and another confirmed it, but i'm beginning to wonder if it's a myth?
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 29, 2010 2:15:52 GMT
No idea... There are weapons out there that give immunity to certain spell schools.... but I lost my list of them
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Post by elnar shadowfox on Nov 3, 2011 12:33:09 GMT
I'm working on something based on these most excellent builds and am short on skill points.
Both builds take hide but I'm not sure all the reasons why. Is it only for the Kobold hide-in-plain-sight (a very neat trick) or does it apply otherwise too?
Asked another way, would I be better off taking more parry or discipline than hide at all?
Thanks Elnar
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Post by maljin on Nov 3, 2011 13:32:29 GMT
Hide is used for the ranger and druid spell mass camouflage which grants you concealment based on the caster level of the druid/ranger casting it and your own hide skill. Even though a couple of shifter forms have their own concealment a great deal of forms you're most likely to use often (manticore, basilisk, medusa, dire tiger, beholder) don't have any concealment. Since hide is a shifter class skill, most forms have an ok dex score and armor penalty from heavy armor and shield is negated while shifted it's rather easy to get a good hide score that translates to 60+% concealment from mass camo. Sure you can get 50-55% concealment from an arcane caster, but since mass camo doesn't have to be cast on every character separately and give some more concealment it's usually better to ask a druid/ranger for mass camo than an arcane for displacement.
On the other hand while you can replace the conceal from mass camo by displacement, replacing a parry skill of 100+ by some other means (like gear or things usable x times per day) is much harder. Same for discipline...though as far as I know shifters can't be slagged while (and only while) shifted so there's something less annoying discipline could protect you from as long as you're really careful (dieing by being hit by a slagging monster might result in the loss of your armor, weapon or shield).
I'd really try hard to fit in all of discipline, parry, hide, listen and animal empathy. Dropping concentration is less noticeable until you visit certain areas but I'd drop craft weapon first, then craft armor if I had to. Come to think of it dropping listen is an alternative as well, if you're mostly relying on your abilities. Manticore spikes, beholder rays and death slaad spittle (maybe some melee touch attacks as well) will suffer from the lack of it though. And since it's a wis skill and a shifter class skill it's again very easy to get a high value.
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Post by redbeard on Feb 19, 2012 20:29:11 GMT
What do you recommend for Paragon feats?
I'm thinking: Legendary Defense (+3 AC) Paragon Form Focus Undead (+2 DC) PFF Wildshape (+2 DC) Paragon Defense (+3 more AC)
That leaves me with two feats.
I'm not too interested in PFF Dragon because the breath will still do half damage if the mob saves. Or will I need better wing buffet DC for Elder Evils? (Do I need better DC for winds/fumes in Cania?) If I had my third form focus other than Dragon it would be my fourth pick.
What about for the other feats?
Where should I put my 3 skill points per level? (x0) Listen, Hide, AE? Should I continue for all 20 levels?
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Post by tyranlthixis on Feb 20, 2012 2:11:24 GMT
Well there is also slighty better AC in dragon form for the extra form focus. Tempting but I'm not sure what is the best thing to do here. I am half tempted to use 4 feats to pick up a new epic form focus (in my case likely undead). I am taking Paragon Form focus Wildshape for sure. Maybe even go full tilt on Undead as well. There is the option for 3 feats for epic Humanoid but I'm not sure how useful that would be without ranger levels. Believe it or not, my shifter has seen so much reincarnation over the years my XP isn't very good and I don't have too many choices to make right away . So, I'll have lots of time to think about it. You get a lot of coverage from 3 form focuses. I don't think there is a right answer here.
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Post by gandoron on Feb 20, 2012 16:13:44 GMT
I have a 3 (LFF) wild, 3 undead, 1 dragon, 2 construct build. I have 3 paragon feats right now, and took PWF in wild and undead, -5 saves on banshee is nice. I'm considering taking outsider form actually Azer fire damage is very nice considering how fast I burn through dragon EP. Otherwise, I guess I'll go 3 for construct.
-G
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