Tactical Archer - 21 wiz / 14 aa / 5 monk

[bort]

Posting this just because i've had fun with it recently and thought i should share.

This build has:
Wall of stone, black blade of disaster, ghostly visage, unlimited gate (teleport)
Counterspelling
128 AC, 65% conceal (among other nice wiz buffs)
98 AB rapid shot+pbs with tensers
7 attacks per round (not dependant on tensers)

This build is a hybrid of a 'pure' offensive AA and a 'pyramid scheme/incantation of arrows' defensive AA, designed to make tactical use of the spells listed above for pulling/mob control and be able to do a decent amount of damage.

I decided to go with more monk levels and fewer wiz levels in order to get a decent pre-epic bab, improving AB and avoiding a lower number of attacks per round if dispelled or amni'd. More AA levels than a 'pyramid scheme/incantation of arrows' type build also means more AB and damage.

Defensive buffs (EV/Premo/Energy Buffer etc) aren't as super duper as they would be with lots of wiz levels, but then you shouldn't need them if you make good use of GV, bbod, wall of stone & gate.

Race: Elf
Subrace: Stargazer

Skills: Concentration, Listen, Spellcraft, Craft Armor, Tumble(monk and legendary levels)

Starting Stats: 8str, 18dex, 12con, 14wis, 15int, 8cha
Subrace Mods: 8str, 18dex, 12con, 18wis, 19int, 6cha

Progression:
4 monk / 6 wiz / 10 aa
4 aa / 15 wiz / 1 monk

* denotes wiz bonus feat
" denotes aa bonus feat

1 point blank shot
3 rapid shot
6 weapon focus
9 blind fight
9* extend spell
12 toughness
15 improved crit
18 iron will
21 epic fort
24 great dex I
24" great dex II
27 great dex III
28* SF illusion
30 great dex IV
33 great dex V
33* GSF illusion
36 great dex VI
38* ESF illusion
39 great dex VII

conj tome

42 epic weapon focus
45 LWF
48 epic prowess
51 LSF Illusion
54 LSF conj
57 armor skin
60 great dex VIII

[starlandra]

basically this is a pull the baddies with bbod, drop a wall on em, jump out and hammer em with bow build then?

[starlandra]

a note on getting more AA levels... if you take all ten pre level 20 you will get your 4 attacks a round with a decent ab... so why not a (this is off the cuff I have put pen to paper) 9 wizard, 10 AA 1 monk (for point dump) 12 wizard 7 AA 1 monk (skill dump part 2) type of build?

[bort]

Pretty much yeah, it's fun for soloing lowbie areas when you're bored/short of time.

Those spells can be pretty useful in a party too, as can counterspelling and breach/mord.

[bort]

Yeah, i forgot to include the progression, *fixed*!
It gets 17 pre-epic bab (1 more than necessary for 4 base attacks per round).

8 monk / 2 wiz / 10 aa
19 wiz / 1 monk

If levelling from scratch (mine was a reincarnation), you might want to do the following for a Tumble dump at 20:

7 monk / 2 wiz / 10 aa / 1 monk
19 wiz / 1 monk

[starlandra]

i guess my question is AA will get your the ab you need, so why so many monk levels? picking yer brain here

[bort]

Max number of AA levels you can have pre-epic is 10 (which gives 10 bab).
So you need at least another 6 bab for 4 base attacks per round.

10 wiz (i.e. 10wiz/10aa) gives you a total of 15 bab (not enough).

10 AA/8 Monk gives you 16 bab (perfect!), with room for 2 Wiz levels, making 17 bab.

Also, you need 6 bab to take AA levels in the first place so you want to meet that requirement by level 10 at the latest in order to take 10 AA levels pre-epic and max your AB.

You can't trade any wiz levels for aa levels as you need 21 wiz minimum for tensers to increase your LBAB from 9 to 15.

You could do something like

4 monk / 6 wiz / 10 aa
4 aa / 15 wiz / 1 monk

for a bonus feat and +1 ab (would be +2 but you lose 1 ab from lower pre-epic bab).

That's probably not a bad idea, assuming you're not bothered about Improved Evasion.

Another option is

4 monk / 6 wiz / 10 aa
19 wiz / 1 monk

For a wiz bonus feat and the possibility of epics in exchange for -1 ab, in which case you'd probably want to swap Conj for something else with a useful epic, perhaps Necro for DoM?

[bort]

Changed the build to 21 wiz / 14 aa / 5 monk for an extra feat, +1 ab and more bow damage (10d10 instead of 9d10).

[starlandra]

another thought... AA's really don't need ac, as i have found out... especially for the tactics you have in mind... why not ditch monk for a tier one ab class to get you to AA faster, for more AA levels overall? Just goofing around I see that you can go 6 wiz 10 AA 4 BG 15 wiz 5 AA for a total of 15 AA and nice saves.

just a thought, then again if you just like the synergy of a monk/AA then there is nothing left to say look fun either way, and having epic spells on it I think could be very handy

[bort]

Sept 2, 2009 18:00:23 GMT starlandra said:

another thought... AA's really don't need ac, as i have found out... especially for the tactics you have in mind... why not ditch monk for a tier one ab class to get you to AA faster, for more AA levels overall? Just goofing around I see that you can go 6 wiz 10 AA 4 BG 15 wiz 5 AA for a total of 15 AA and nice saves.

just a thought, then again if you just like the synergy of a monk/AA then there is nothing left to say look fun either way, and having epic spells on it I think could be very handy

You need 6 bab to take AA or BG though, so 6 wiz (3 bab) won't qualify you for either.

4 Fighter* / 10 AA / 6 Wiz
15 Wiz / 5 AA
*or Paladin/Barb/Ranger

Would work though, and gets +2 AB over 21wiz/5monk/14aa thanks to an increase in enchant arrow and +1 pre-epic bab.

While the AC isn't essential for an AA, combined with 65% conceal it does help give you enough time to GV and reposition if necessary, which can be handy.

Also, having reincarnated for the third time in three days i think i might leave it where it is for now.

Thanks for the feedback

[starlandra]

thanks for answering! hope you return and report on how it works out the deeper you go

[bort]

Well i've mainly been playing it when the server is relatively quiet for soloing, which it does really well at (in free rest areas anyway).

No plans to take it to hell at the moment, although i think it would be useful, fitting halfway between a 'pure' AA and a 'pyramid scheme/incantation of arrows' damage-wise, with the same ability to grab low SR creatures as the latter.

Plus i think the ability to GV and BBOD without needing scrolls or potions is a great addition to any hells party (though i would scribe some in case of amni).

[teleben]

I like the look of this build for -HC- play. Looks like a fun way to farm LL areas for loot.

Using Wemic, and swapping a few feats around for saves. I've tried the Monk version (which requires taking martial weapon prof on a Wemic), and am now fleshing a Ranger version. 4 Ranger / 21 Wiz / 15 AA

I have a few questions I'm hoping you or others might be able to help with.

1. How do you get wall of stone out of this? I cant see Epic Trans taken.
2. You have Listen and Blind Fight. Any reason for both?
3. If going Ranger rather than Monk, is Illusion still a needed focus or should I swap for Trans for the wall.
4. Do you use any offensive spells such as orbs, or are the spells for buffs only?
5. Should you specialize in one school? If so, which two are ok to drop?
6.How far did you get with it, and would you recommend it?

Also, any pitfalls to avoid?

Thanks in advance,
Tele

[bort]

1. the Wall of Stone i refer to is from the Wall of Fire spell (modified on HG) which creates a small wall of stone big enough to block corridors / stairways etc, especially with the help of a Black Blade of Disaster (bbod). The build posted doesn't get the epic wall, but you could go for more wiz levels (25 minimum) and swap Conj. foci for Trans foci in order to pick up the epic wall.

2. I think Blind Fight is there because there wasn't much else i wanted to take, and because it isn't affected by skill lowering or deafness. I don't think you'd have too many problems without it though.

3. Illusion is nice for the Ghostly Visage spell (functions as a mini Greater Sanctuary, very handy for repositioning and getting enemies to focus on your bbod, not you).
If you're going to drop a focus i'd probably drop Conj, but then Gate teleporting combined with epic wall is quite a fun combo. Don't forget you'll need 25 wiz (pre LLs) to qualify for epics.

4. You have neither the spell penetration or high enough INT to do much with offensive spells, but perhaps Grease (ignores SR) could be worth a try, maybe even Evards Black Tentacles (maybe not because of SR) , though i can't remember how the AB calculation works. As for orbs, you'd probably do more damage with your bow on this character (again SR issues and possibly low AB on orbs).

5. Interesting idea, you could specialise in either Illusion or Conj and drop the legendary spell focus in that school for a free feat. You could probably drop Enchantment and either Divination or Necromancy without losing much.

6. I mainly used it to solo LLs when the servers were particularly quiet and i found the tactical aspect both fun and quite effective (although soloing with anything other than a caster always seems a bit slow going, especially against enemies with heal potions). I think i would definately recommend it for a bit of solo fun, though you may want to pick up more Wizard levels for epic spells, especially if you think your HC parties could benefit from Epic Wall, for example. Bear in mind that if you only have 25 Wizard levels pre-LLs your epic wall won't last as long.

[teleben]

Thanks for the quick reply Bort.

Due to the stat bonuses on Wemic, I'd be taking great Int on the Wiz bonus lvls, so could easily put SF Ill and GSF Ill into pre epic feats.

Regarding the epics, I guess Bigby Swarm would do a similar job to Epic Wall for the tactics in mind with this build, so you can just as easily keep Conj instead of Trans. And still use the normal wall as you do.

25 Wiz lvls is annoying though. You either lose ab (and possibly a 4th atack), by not having as many Monk or Ranger lvls as a pre epic splash, or lose damage by not having as many AA lvls post epic.
I'd really like to fit the epics in, but am not sure it's worth the trade off. Thats a big hit to the AA power. Comes down to a personal choice I guess.

Anyway thanks for the build and answers to questions that had been bugging me.