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Post by zkamuiz on Jan 3, 2008 0:07:34 GMT
hi, i'm very interested in this build...but i don't have any of the secret subraces except illithid lol. I was wondering if someone can tell me what's a good subrace that's not secret to use...so even new players can make one, or even an illithid buikld would be very helpful...thanks for any contributions ^^
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Jan 4, 2008 6:56:33 GMT
What kind of race would you like to play?
Ideally, human based works best, because of that extra 1st level feat. Any of these work, human better than the other races, but pick what you like to play, or if you really want a subrace (including illithid) it can propably be made to work. For non-human races take a look at the elven warder (vs the generic build) to see how it copes for saves without that extra 1st level feat.
"Humanoid - Kobold"
- STR -2, DEX +2, +2 search, free feat: Darkvision, reduces character size to small, speaks Draconic, speaks Kobold
"Humanoid - Goblin"
- STR -3, DEX +2, free feat: Stealthy, free feat: Darkvision, reduces character size to small, speaks Goblin
"Hobbit"
- DEX +1, INT -2, WIS +1, free feat: Iron Will
"Deep Halfling"
- CON +1, SR5 +1/lvl, free feat: Keen Sense, free feat: Darkvision
"Gnome - Svirfneblin"
- base SR0 +1/lvl, CON -2, CHR -2, DEX +2, WIS +2, free feat: Darkvision, saves +2, listen +2, hide +2, speaks Undercommon, speaks Svirfneblin
"Elf - Grey Elf"
- INT +2, STR -2, hide +2, move silently +2
"Elf - Moon Elf"
- INT +2, STR -2, Spellcraft +4
"Dwarf - Wild Dwarf"
- WIS +1, free feat: Called Shot, resist fire 5/-, +1 save vs. poison, +4 save vs disease
Just remember that by level 60 you want 18 base wis, and starting (usually no matter what stat modifiers you get) it's generally most efficient to go 16 dex 16 wis before modifiers, then bump the other needed stats (con, int). If you have to drop final dex down to 52 (geared) to fit all the feats you want, you're still ok. And remember, if you use a small race, you may wish to consider dagger/kukri for weapons, to minimize dual wield attack penalties.
If you decide on a race, and don't quite know how to optimize, just post here or send me a message and I'll take a look.
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Post by Egg on Jan 4, 2008 23:33:09 GMT
Follwing this build almost to the letter. Contemplated to trade a couple of great dex's for extend for bladethirst but figured with 8 spellslots for it i needn't. Really enjoyable build to play so far, almost time for hells... thumbs up lythe  |
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Post by zkamuiz on Jan 5, 2008 16:28:51 GMT
ahh so 20 base wis is not a necessity? ok time for test chamber haha
edit: what about int? if i'm human 14 good enough? or should still get 16?
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Post by zkamuiz on Jan 5, 2008 17:41:34 GMT
well here goes nothing!
Illithid with kukri variation -
base race: Halfing
Halfling Special Abilities:
small stature, skill affinity(Move Silently),skill affinity(Listen),Lucky(+1 all saves), Fearless, Good Aim
"Illithid" (secret subrace) - no race requirement (changes Appearance)
STR -1, CON -1, INT +5, free feat: Iron Will, free feat: Slippery Mind
Stats Distribution at makeup: STR 8 DEX 18 CON 13 INT 11 WIS 16 CHA 8
starting stats: STR 7 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 16 WIS 16 CHA 8
2 levelup point into WIS then the rest into DEX
Feats
1 Blooded,
3-18 exotic weapon,Finesse, Weapon focus(kukri), Improved critical(kukri), blindfighting, toughness
1,5,10,15, 20 favored enemy each time
21 armor skin
23 @ Favored Enemy*
24 Great dex 1
25 @ Favored Enemy*
26 @ Favored Enemy*
27 Great dex 2
29 @ Favored Enemy*
30 Great dex 3
30 @ Favored Enemy*
32 @ Favored Enemy*
33 Great dex 4
35 @ epic weapon focus(kukri)
35 @ epic prowess
36 epic fort
38 @ blinding speed
39 called shot
40 @ bane of enemies
42 LSA tumble
45 Great Dex 5
48 legendary weapon focus
51 Great Dex 6
54 legendary will
57 Great dex 7
60 great dex 8
if use other weapons you can take dodge instead of exotic for 1 more dodge ac
how does it look?
edit: forgot free feat slippery mind haha & changed starting stats to Lythe's suggestion
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Jan 5, 2008 18:46:21 GMT
Words of advice:
Drop starting wis to 16, bump starting dex to 18, take 1 more str (this will help you a lot early on) at no loss, as you can use 1 more level-up stat for wis.
Question about illithid, is it because you like the appearance, or for the 5 int? Though high int is very nice..
In LL levels you dropped iron will, however it's a prerequisit for Legendary Will, so you will have to fit it in somewhere, or be forced to take epic will instead of legendary, and drop from 60 will to 55. Even with just great dex 6 you'll hit 54 dex, which will be plenty. The other feat you'll have left, spend as you like.. extend spell will keep your bladethirsts from dropping all the time (and give you more invisibility purge for the hells, with a much nicer duration). If you do go with a non-exotic weapon you can put iron will in pre-20.
Don't worry about dropping dodge, you'll still hit 139ac in UR gear at 60
You may wish to consider bumping con for more hp, but my own build has survived with what you'll have, and 1050 hp is decent.
Choice of weapons, I'd say ignore crit modifiers and go with what you like. If you're just starting out, kukris can be very hard to get, especially in the hells, and illithid lets you use small weapons as well without additional penalty (sickle, short sword, light mace, hand axe). That aside, l.35 kukris can still be trade for easily (my first was given as a present from a stranger), and being able to use bladethirst on your weapon of choice before 40 is always nice (though I did go with maces and using sickles/hand axes till 40 for bladethirst wasn't bad).
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Post by zkamuiz on Jan 5, 2008 22:02:58 GMT
it's my only secret sub race i have, Iron Will is a free feat for Illithids, i like kukris cuz of the look and crit modifier. I'll try it out at chamber and see how the new stat distribution will go
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Jan 5, 2008 23:27:14 GMT
oops did miss that part on the free iron will, in that case you're looking pretty nice on that build.
for the kukri.. if you like the look, stick with it, it's not a bad choice, and if you check the exotic imports store you'll find level 3 or 4 usable kukris with 1d4 fire or with 1d4 ice damage, with your low str you'll want to look for weapons with elemental damage as soon as you can.
Level 21 is when the build will really take off, that's when you'll get your wis bonus AC I believe, until then you may be best off using a shield and as heavy an armor as you can carry (did medium armor on my last till then, but with str build I could carry it).
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Post by aldarion on Jan 9, 2008 4:14:42 GMT
This build can be adapted to many subraces from free to BUR, and even as a free subrace you can still get a hells capable build. If you wish to make a pure melee dex ranger, this build gives the optimal distribution of stats/feats for AC, beyond that for tweaks you can easily drop 2-4 great dex feats if you want something special (like epic/legendary hide for more conceal, extended spell, +14 weapon buffs, etc) I currently have the stargazer variant malbolge tagged with few regrets, the main downfall being pitfiends (a problem every dexer faces). thrikreen and doppleganger variation to follow updated to current changes in game Stargazer variation - pros - epic dodge, improved evasion cons - tight on feats Starting points distribution: Dex 10 con 6 int 4 wis 10 starting stats: str 8 dex 18 con 12 int 16 wis 20 cha 6 All levelup points into dex Feats 1 Blooded, 3-18 dodge,Finesse, Weapon focus, Improved critical, blindfighting, toughness 1,5,10,15, 20 favored enemy each time 21 armor skin 23 @ Favored Enemy* 24 Great dex 1 25 @ Favored Enemy* 26 @ Favored Enemy* 27 Great dex 2 29 @ Favored Enemy* 30 Great dex 3 30 @ Favored Enemy* 32 @ Favored Enemy* 33 Great dex 4 35 @ epic weapon focus 35 @ epic prowess 36 epic fort 38 @ blinding speed 39 called shot 40 @ bane of enemies 42 LSA tumble 45 epic dodge 48 legendary weapon focus 51 iron will 54 legendary will 57 Great dex 5 60 great dex 6 Final (geared) stats - str 8(20) dex 44(56) con 16(28) int 16 wis 20(32) cha 6 con 12 - 720 hp 90 hp LL con 240 hp gear 1060 hp total ab 20base+10epic+7feats+15LL+23stat+ =75 (before weapon buffs) pre20 40 60 gear stat feat epic F LLfeat luck total fort 12 10 5 20 10 _ 4 _ 61 ref 6 10 5 20 23 _ _ _ 64 will 6 10 5 20 11 2 _ 7 61 tumble ignore, then catchup after you get LSA-tumble at 42 Due to no free feats, not being human and taking epic dodge, plus the -con, stargazer is very tight on feats. In comparison doppleganger (human) can take luck of heros and legendary luck, and ends up with 3-4 more feats, plus has higher con to begin with. As AC and AB is the same it's your choice whether epic dodge is worth it enemies Outsiders Abberations Undead Elementals Reptilian Humanoids Animals Dragons Constructs monstrous humanoids vermin? beasts Skills - maxed animal empathy discipline hide listen parry tumble ~58-60 points left over, suggesting maybe 40 craft armor for an extra AC and the rest into concentration for combat buffing (bladethirst does drop a fair bit) Final AC using UR items - 130 with shield, 140 dual wielding in UR light armor |
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Post by aldarion on Jan 9, 2008 4:22:26 GMT
I was in the Hall of Training and trying to test out this build with a Thri-Kreen sub-race. However, I was not getting the choice to do Great Dexterity. Instead I would see a choice for Epic Toughness instead. Anyone know why?
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Post by booboospooki on Jan 9, 2008 11:13:51 GMT
I was in the Hall of Training and trying to test out this build with a Thri-Kreen sub-race. However, I was not getting the choice to do Great Dexterity. Instead I would see a choice for Epic Toughness instead. Anyone know why? I think it's because Rangers don't get Great Dexterity as Epic Bonus Feats*. You will have to take Great Dexterity as Epic Feats^, not Epic Bonus Feats*. *Epic Bonus Feats: 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, and 38. ^Epic Feats: 21, 24, 27, 30, 33, 36, 39 |
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Post by nanabot on Jan 9, 2008 14:36:15 GMT
Just curious, why do you max Hide? The only use for it I see is the bonus to the Camouflage spells, but I would think that was more for receiving the spell than casting it. What other use is the max'd Hide, especially without maxing Move Silent?
Thanks
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Jan 9, 2008 15:41:14 GMT
hide is for your conceal. If you didn't have hide at all, on a pure ranger your conceal would top out at 35%, and if you splashed anything it would top out at 30% (effectively 12%, and 10 %). With maxed hide and a bard in the party I've been around 60 % (36% effectively), and it can make a huge difference.
I don't see how you interprete it as receiving (vs casting), as the only caster that gets non-hide conceal from cammo is a druid.
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Post by nanabot on Jan 9, 2008 16:45:02 GMT
Aah, OK, thank. I guess I just misread the spell description.
BTW, you don't take Self Conceal feats with this build. I guess that's because the Camo spells effectively give you that without the use of feats?
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Jan 10, 2008 1:34:13 GMT
self conceal is 5 feats and caps at 50%. Cammo conceal is dispellable, but doesn't cost feats and can potentially be (depending on how you build and gear) over 70%.
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