Open Race -HC- Divine Theurge (C26, W13, M1)

[louisvilleslugger]

This is an open race mystic theurge quasi-class.

It is in the design stage for my next -HC- toon.

Please comment and point out any errors I've made.

===================================================

Pro's:
Cleric spells (1-9) Wizard spells (1-7) cast at level 58 CL
Monk Wis AC
x3 Cleric Epic spells: Conversion, Avatar, Miracle
Ethereal visage=77% conceal, immune: 6th
Greater stoneskin: 38/+14
Tensers: +19 natural AC
Creeping doom: 3% phys vulnerable per round


Con's:
Low Fort & Reflex Saves not ready for hells
Gnome small size: no staff + torch option
XP penalty when monk is taken (40th)

==================================================


Cleric 26 [domains: Plant (must) & 2nd (Animal or magic?)]
Wizard 13
Monk 1



Race: Gnome
-CON +2, STR -2, free: SF-Illusion, small size
-Gnomes receive 2 additional skill points per level. Skill points for levels prior to 41 awarded at altar

Subrace: "Svirfneblin"
- FC: Cleric
- base SR0 +1/lvl, CON -2, CHA -2, DEX +2, WIS +2, free feat: Darkvision, saves +2, listen +2, hide +2

Starting Stats:
Str 8 (6) --0
Con 12 --4
Dex 8(10)
Wis 16(18) --10
Int 18 --16
Cha 8 (6) --0


1.Cleric1, feat: Luck of Heroes
2.Cleric2
3.Cleric3, feat: SF- Evocation
4.Cleric4 (WISDOM EVERY TIME)
5.Cleric5
6.Cleric6, Feat: GSF- Evocation
7.Cleric7
8.Cleric8
9.Cleric9, feat: Spell Penetration
10.Cleric10
11.Wizard1
12.Wizard2, feat: Extended Spell
13.Wizard3
14.Wizard4,
15.Wizard5, feat: Greater Spell Penetration, w.feat: Empowered spell
16.Wizard6
17.Wizard7
18.Wizard8, feat: GSF- Illusion
19.Wizard9
20.Cleric11

Pre-Epic HP= 8*11 + 4*9 = 124
Pre-Epic Save= (fort=7+3+1=11 , reflex=3+3+1=7 , will=7+6+1=14 ) -feats & base attributes
Pre-Epic Skill points = 6 x 23 = 138

EPIC


21.Cleric12, feat: Great WIS 1
22.Cleric13
23.Cleric14
24.Cleric15, feat: Great WIS 2
25.Cleric16
26.Cleric17
27.Wizard10, feat: ESF-Evocation , w.feat: Epic Spell Penetration
28.Wizard11
29.Wizard12
30.Wizard13, feat: ESF- Illusion
31.Cleric18
32.Cleric19, ()
33.Cleric20, feat: Great WIS 3
34.Cleric21
35.Cleric22
36.Cleric23, feat: Great WIS 4 , c.feat: Great WIS 5 ()
37.Cleric24
38.Cleric25
39.Cleric26, feat: Great WIS 6, c.feat: Great WIS 7
40.Monk1, () *max out discipline, tumble, listen


Epic HP= 124 + 8*14 + 4*4 = 252
Epic Save= (fort=21 , reflex=17 , will=24)
Epic Skill points = 122

LEGENDARY: CLERIC

41.Cleric27 **Read- Divination Book**
42.Cleric28, Feat: Legendary Luck()
43.Cleric29
44.Cleric30 ()
45.Cleric31, Feat: LSF-Evocation
46.Cleric32 ()
47.Cleric33
48.Cleric34, Feat: Legendary Spell Penetration()
49.Cleric35
50.Cleric36 ()
51.Cleric37, Feat: Armorskin
52.Cleric38 ()
53.Cleric39
54.Cleric40 , Feat: Great WIS 8()
55.Cleric41
56.Cleric42 ()
57.Cleric43 , Feat: Great WIS 9()
58.Cleric44 ()
59.Cleric45
60.Cleric46 , Feat: Great WIS 10 ()


Leg. Base save = fort=26+3=29, reflex=22+3=25, will=29+3=32)
Leg. Base HP = 252 + 8*20 = 412 + CON12(24)
Leg. Skill points= 120 + gnome bonus: 120



====================================
Skills (total skill pts=138+122+120+120=500)

Discipline=43
Tumble=40
listen=43
Parry=63
Craft armor= 63
Heal= 63
Concentration=63
Spellcraft=63



=====================================
Final WIS

60 = 16 (base) + 2 (subrace) + 10 (lvlup) + 10 (LL) + 10 (G.WIS) + 12 (items)


Final Max. Saves

CON12(24)=+7, DEX10(22)=+6, WIS48(60)=+25, +20 to save throw from items

Fort=29+7+20=56 Reflex=25+6+20=51 Will=32+25+20=77

[note: svirfneblin get +2 save, but it probably counts towards the +20 cap]



Maximum AC? (tough to get the gear of course)

Base=10
Dex10(22)=6
Wis48(60)=25
Tumble=8
Natural=19 *tenser*
Deflection=17
Dodge=20
Shield (none)=0
armor (robes)=0+17
Armorskin feat=2
Craft armor bonus=1 to 2
small size=1
AC=126-127

[starlandra]

should move this to the open subby forum?

[simpetar]

I am not sure if Epic Mage Armor works with stacked wiz and cleric levels... does it?
*poke* You admit the saves will are not ready for hells; how can your listed AC rely on BURs? *poke*
one small note: BUR robes have +15 armor bonus, not +17.
Nice build otherwise

cheers
simpetar

[louisvilleslugger]

Star: I've not taken the time to do the additional information that the DM's require for the open race forum (mainly because the build isn't tested for viability yet).

Simpetar: Good call on the BUR items. I understand that caster's saves don't need to be as high as front liners, but how low can they go? Re: Epic mage armor--> I posted a question about if the EMA will work for quasi's, but no DM answer yet (just folks guessing so far). I will modify if EMA will not work.

[starlandra]

robes are 17 if girded

[simpetar]

Jun 6, 2008 13:08:59 GMT starlandra said:

robes are 17 if girded

Oh, my bad, did not realize that.

[louisvilleslugger]

Epic mage armor will NOT work for quasi's
(Answer was from Acaos in drunk monk forum highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=Tavern&action=display&thread=10129 )

E.M.A. swapped out for Armorskin.

[jonuhey]

I have a build just like this... though I went a bit higher on wiz lvs, because I like to have the 9th wiz spells too, so I get 20cle/19wiz/1monk...
though u went just to 13wiz...

and theres something I really dont know about... does the wisdom modifier applies to the wiz's spells? or just int? if its really just Int I am really in need of a reinc >.<'

(im still noob with casters... xPP)

[louisvilleslugger]

Jul 15, 2008 18:07:50 GMT @jonuhey said:

I have a build just like this... though I went a bit higher on wiz lvs, because I like to have the 9th wiz spells too, so I get 20cle/19wiz/1monk...
though u went just to 13wiz...

and theres something I really dont know about... does the wisdom modifier applies to the wiz's spells? or just int? if its really just Int I am really in need of a reinc >.<'

(im still noob with casters... xPP)

INT modifier applies to your wizard spells and WIS for your cleric spells (should focus on 1 type and use the other for buffs). You also need at least 25 levels in a class to get access to the epic spells.

[jonuhey]

thats the motive there arent many theurges around... only ppl who want to get some scrolls from both class >.<

and thats the motive my bigbys werent working... because of my int19 >.<

and theres a lot of things that doesnt works with quasi also... this is bad =/
guess I'll reinc him to a cleric build or something totally different

ty for info

[gren]

Theurge can be a fun class to play but not if you expect your wizzy spells to be useful for much other than buffs (for a Divine Thuerge anyway).

Most build a Theurge to be a cleric with Tensers, EV etc. The downside is a lack of epics amongst other things.

[louisvilleslugger]

Jul 16, 2008 12:04:18 GMT @jonuhey said:

thats the motive there arent many theurges around... only ppl who want to get some scrolls from both class >.<

and thats the motive my bigbys werent working... because of my int19 >.<

and theres a lot of things that doesnt works with quasi also... this is bad =/
guess I'll reinc him to a cleric build or something totally different

ty for info

This build seems pretty sound if you don't have a secret or better race. I'll be posting an Arcane Theurge open race later today or tomorrow.....just something to consider when you reincarnate.

[jonuhey]

Jul 16, 2008 17:48:25 GMT louisvilleslugger said:

This build seems pretty sound if you don't have a secret or better race. I'll be posting an Arcane Theurge open race later today or tomorrow.....just something to consider when you reincarnate.

sure it seems good under those terms
the wiz's buffs can save ur life sometimes...

and I'll be waiting to see ur Arcane Theurge ;D