Some Baneknight ideas

[Talamanthalon]

After running Bane Knight for awhile now here are some new thoughts to make the class more interesting:

HG Epic: Evocation
Bane Knights should get access to the Bigby epic, it just makes sense.

Melee Touch attacks spells:
Maybe make all spells with a melee touch attack component usuable by Bane Knights. Allow them to only create an on hit property with these spells for their weapons. One per weapon max. Would add some additional flavor.

[uncanny]

One thing that is quite dissapointing is vile damage from the bigby: way too low. 120 odd points at lvl54 is practically shrugged off by all but the most glass-cannon of mobs at low LL areas. I can get about 2-4x the damage just standing there being hit once (dmg shields), or hitting the "whatever".

Another thing we really need most urgently is a way to tell if Tensors has worn off. This needs to be a highly visible cue, not a floaty text which gets lost in battle. Something like a purple/green spellmantle effect, even at hip height if needs to be.

Lastly.. it would be handy if spell focus can extend time of tensors. Say, epic spell focus gives 2x duration, legendary focus gives 3x duration.

[millivanilli]

or just make it the same as for staffmasters - 1 turn per level

and I have to agree about the HG epic - hands are supposed to be the BK's bread and butter, so why not the epic as well.

I'm still out on the level 8 hands - but have to admit that so far in LL's I've hardly used them - on a few mobs only. Damage shields have without a doubt, proven more effective so far, and hitting the whatever, better than that.

[Talamanthalon]

Bane Knights are pretty light for skill points, maybe the hand damage could be increased to TRIPLE it's damage much like orbs are for regular casters. Instead of using the Lore skill maybe double damage from Concentration and triple damage from Concentration and Discipline. To represent the melee/casting nature of the class.

Lore
- Can be used to increase the damage of elemental damage spells. The minimum Lore to receive a bonus is 21, and the bonuses increase through Lore 120, which grants 100% of the possible bonus in the area.

Spell Penetration:
Spell penetration works well I think, with the new changes to Str spell pen, but you need a TON of str to be effective. At current level, 51 in desert I need to bestow Devariels for spells to land effectively. I would be nice if spell pen conversion of str was a bit better. It's now Str/4, it doesn't need to be Str/3 but should definitely be Str/3.5 I'm thinking.

Touch Attacks:
I'd like to see all melee touch attacks added to Bane Knights arsenal so they can cast these spells as well. Maybe allow one effect to the on hit of a weapon or straight up add them to the spell list. Allow the casting of a melee touch attack spell on a weapon also think all of these spells should use Evocation for any Spell Focus effects due to tight spell focus feats and evoc supporting hands. Detonate may be a bit much.

List of Melee touch attack spells:
Shocking Grasp
Corrosive Grasp
Geedless Electric Loop
Combust
Vampiric Touch
Detonate

AOE Damage:
I like the change to Vamp Touch AOE at lvl 60. I think that all of the melee touch attack spells should be turned into AOE attacks at different LL levels for better variety. This should be an effect of the ON HIT ONLY LIMITS; meaning only aoe damage on the spells that are cast on the Bane Knights weapon.

Maybe like this:
ONLY the melee touch attack spells.

Lvl 50 - Lvls 1-4 spells become AOE
Lvl 60 - Lvls - 5-9 become AOE

Dont' allow any of these spells to be boosted by lore, for the purposes of the on hit property Bane Knight can only ever have 1 AOE effect on a weapon.

In case this is looked at as overpowering:
Limit it to 1 or 2 max spells that can be selected and only these 1 or 2 spells would ever be AOE. Adds variety to different bane knight builds and would never allow a bane knight to have all elemental damages as aoe damage.

Vamp Touch effect should remain only castable not ON HIT.

[Talamanthalon]

Totally seperate idea:

Make the Bigby hand on a target trigger the AOE effect. So the on hit of the weapon would be the effect, but it would be cast on the bigby target. This effect would work on all hands!

Cast bigby 8, aoe effect of combust hits target, every round thereafter the bigby 8, on the target would pulse for aoe damage again of that spell. Duration is until target is dead or the hand fades.

Wacky idea but interesting, adds variety to the class and keeps the focus on the hands as it's spell mechanism.

[uncanny]

Aug 21, 2011 13:19:54 GMT Talamanthalon said:

Totally seperate idea:

Make the Bigby hand on a target trigger the AOE effect. So the on hit of the weapon would be the effect, but it would be cast on the bigby target. This effect would work on all hands!

Cast bigby 8, aoe effect of combust hits target, every round thereafter the bigby 8, on the target would pulse for aoe damage again of that spell. Duration is until target is dead or the hand fades.

Wacky idea but interesting, adds variety to the class and keeps the focus on the hands as it's spell mechanism.

Mmmm I like that concept. The Bigby is definitely meant to be the "BK Thing"; at least it was before the nerf. This gives the BK something interesting to do with it that no other class can - more close to the definition of a Quasi

[Talamanthalon]

Simple recommendation:

Since [glow=red,2,300]Spell Mantle[/glow] is a Bane Knight spell, make all of the mantles Bane Knight spells. [glow=red,2,300]Least Spell Mantle[/glow] is newer and would be nice to have since that level of spells isn't that good at this time.

[chirality]

I'm for any and all of this.

It's good to see some cool ideas such as these...why is this such a lonely thread?



I really would like to support Talamanthalon's suggested Spell Penetration/Strength upgrade; not in the least because I feel like just changing the numbers in existing scripts is less work and thus more likely to be done than dramatically changing or adding new scripts for the other very interesting suggestions.

The Tenser's thing that uncanny mentioned is also something that really irritates me. Would be great to see something along those lines added.

[Talamanthalon]

Here's a full rewrite of the Bane Knight class:

Bane Knights are the odd mixture of Sorceror and Black Guard. Some call this class the Hand of Death the sinister hybrid of offensive caster mixed with the evil machinations of the Black Guard offer this class an interesting mixture of death through disablement. The Bane Knight class allows for the enhancemnt of disabling crowd control effects as well as the ability to execute all spells from range via it's line of enchanced Bigby Spells which is a signature spell for this class and helps to empower all of it's other spells.

The Bane Knight receives the following bonuses:
- To qualify for Bane Knight the character must have 12 levels of Sorcerer, 12 levels of Blackguard, and the Still Spell feat before level 26.
- Bane Knights receive the 3 Epic Auto Still Spell feats for free.
- Bane Knights receive a bonus of STR mod / 3 to Spell Penetration which does not stack with feats.

Spells
- Spell DCs for certin spells (those listed below) are equal to 10 + spell level + (STR modifierx9/10).
- Caster levels for those same spells are equal to Sorcerer level + Blackguard level.
- All other spells follow standard rules for casterlevel and dc, relying on Sorcerer levels only and using CHA instead of STR to calculate DC.
- A Bane Knight may change their spells once at level 60 using the Spells Pedestal in the docks if their control class is not Sorceror.
- Level 1: Grease, Mage Armor, Shield, True Strike, Protection vs. Alignment
- Level 2: Balagorn's Iron Horn, Bull's Strength, Eagle's Splendor, Endurance, Flame Weapon , Death Armor
- Level 3: Greater Magic Weapon , Keen, Magic Circle vs. Alignment, Vampiric Touch
- Level 4: Bestow Curse, Confusion, Elemental Shield, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Phantasmal Killer.
- Level 5: Acid Sheath, Bigby's Interposing Hand, Dismissal, Energy Buffer, Mind Fog, Wrack.
- Level 6: Bigby's Forceful Hand, Greater Stoneskin, Tenser's Transfromation
- Level 7: Banishment, Bigby's Grasping Hand, Power Word Stun, Protection from Spells, Spell Mantle, Shadow Shield
- Level 8: Bigby's Clenched Fist, Mass Blindness/Deafness, Premonition
- Level 9: Energy Drain, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Weird

Premonition
- Bane Knights get a special version of the Premonition spell. They are able to cast it while wearing armor heavier than cloth and/or while using a shield, unlike Sorcerers

Bigby's Extended Reach:
The Bane Knight has studied the Bigby spell so much that he has learned to channel attack spells from his current list of spells through their Bigby Hands. Some think that the Bane Knight is the bane of casters and as such have learned to stay as far away from casters as possible and this mechanism allows for that.

At Bane Knight level 35 the Bane Knight is able to channel any spells from their spell list into their Bigby Hands. This allows the all Bigby spells cast after it to reach out and touch the target with the additional spell: (Double Spell effect, the hand first and then the 2nd spell after).

Bigby's Reaching Blast:
At Bane Knight 50 the Bane Knight is able to channel an additional spell from their spell list directly through their Bigby hand and from this point the second spell cast will act as an AOE when all Bigby's hands land on a target.

Both of these abilities are controlled through the command - !BKhand1 (cast spell on self this is always single target) and !BKhand2 (cast on self this is always aoe damage)

Bigby's Pulsing Hand:
Both of the following Bigby's hands will "pulse" with the additional spell that hit for a duration equal to the hand's duration.

Level 6: Bigby's Interposing Hand
Level 7: Bigby's Grasping Hand
This addresses the issue of low damage on the Bigby 8 spell, it now pulses the additional spells from these types of hands. AOE Fear pulse! AOE confusion pulse!


Bigby's Siphoning Focus:
Baneknights receive an additional +1 spell DC to ALL SPELLS SCHOOLS per hand that stays on the screen that is on a target, to a maximum bonus of +5 DC.

Only these two hands will trigger this effect:
Level 5 Interposing Hand
Level 9 Clenched Fist

This allows the Bane Knight to power themselves up through use of their hands to help with the lack of feats and spell focuses they have.

HG Epic Bigby's Empowerment:
At CL 40 the Baneknight gains access to the Bigby epic and can be used 2 times per day at character level 60. In addition the epic's regular effects, the Bane Knight receives the full power of Bigby's Siphoning Focus increase their spell DC's to +5 on all spell schools for the duration of the epic spell.

Bane Knights Summon Undead:
The Bane Knight summons a unique Bigby hand when they use their Black Guard Summon ability. When used this ability casts Bigby's Interposing Hand on the Bane Knight and gives the Bane Knight the Epic Dodge feat.

(This addresses this issue of what to do with the Summon spell, Bane Knights shouldn't receive anything else for summons)

============================
Add the following spells to a Bane Knights list of spells:
Fear
Ghoul Touch
Shocking Grasp
Corrosive Grasp
Geedless Electric Loop
Combust
Detonate
Spell Breach
============================

Now that looks like a fun class to play.