Enjoyable Build

[Xalo]

What do you guys think is the most enjoyable caster build out of these few OR the most welcome caster build out of these few? I messed with a couple builds and these are the ones I think I might enjoy, looking for second input on them:

(These are all open subrace builds, based off other builds that looked nice)

Universal Bard (32str/34dex/44cha with +14s)
Pure Palemaster (10wiz/30PM)
Splash Druid (38druid/1ranger/1monk)
Pure Shifter (10druid/30shifter - undead/construct/wildshape)

I know a shifters not technically a caster, but looks interesting enough!

Xalo

[sabregirl]

Shifter Shifter! ;D

They basically play like casters, but a bit more fun imo. Downside is it takes a lot longer to swap abilities unlike swapping spells. Upside is shifters can fill in something in almost any party.

"pure" might be rather painful without a discipline/parry splash.

-S

[uncanny]

Caster shifter imo. The other casters there will annoy the living daylights out of you once you hit the SP wall.
Though I'd suggest going with a ranger splash at lvl40 for the discipline/parry plus prowess.

[MurphysLawAgain]

These are very different play experiences and there isn't a general right answer. I will summarise my thoughts one by one and let you make your mind up about what you want. I would add that I have played all of these classes (but not these builds) in most of the module.

The bard is a support character and most likely to be in high demand for runs. Bard can be the hardest class to play well in HG and its only rewarding to those who are happy with a party support role. I am not sure if this character is a tank bard but they seem to be the current fashion.

The shifter is a combination tank / caster which will do well in all areas of the module. I have found shifters to be easier to gear and arm than other classes so great for starting out. Because its a combination of tank & caster it can fill in for a number of roles in a party - this will help get runs but not as much as a bard.

The Pale Master is spectacular in some areas, less good in others. Its the most survivable of the classes in your list by a mile, and the focus on two schools makes it easier to get the basics of. In endgame areas PM's change from being instakillers who weaken foes to primarily inflicters and weakeners who also do some instakilling.

Druids are in demand and versatile. Its likely that a decent druid build will be playable in all areas of the module, and with the exception of a few endgame areas enjoyable. They require quite a bit of learning and detailed knowledge of the module.

[Raj]

I highly suggest you to try level up a druid for LL and Hells and beyond play, as they're a core class whose lack often makes run not even start.
While they're a very nice to have class for their support abilities in end game runs, they're very powerful on their own for LL play, less gimped than other casters in their mid-40s to 50s due to their means of lowering spell resistance, and having couple high effective spells bypassing SR as well (quillfire and earthquake are powerful in LL ).
They're not that DC dependant as other casters so using a open/secret subrace doesn't hold your effectiveness too much, and you 'need' a core caster in order to jump on as many runs as possible or do LL on your own ( druid can solo or duo anything from Desert to Pyramid, from 'Thids to PoM) to accumulate gear for the next toons.

Shifters are another valid choice for new players as they're very easy to gear up and can fit many spots in a already solid party; they're not as high in demand as druids or bards ( people usually shout specifically for a shifter only for aboleths part 2, and even there they're not a must have ) but they can contribute in any run as dmg dealers/soakers, or act as bard/mage substitute in many runs. Undead-construct or outsider-construct are well rounded choices, dragon is a bit too boring and not really unique if you ask me (and a bit disappointing when trying to malee with them, playing a big bad dragon just to breath/gust is so wrong).

Palemaster is not any more welcome than any standard mage on the mayority (all?) of runs, and being DC-centered the need of a good subrace and good caster gear makes this a not newbie friendly class. I think you'll enjoy it a lot on some runs where they can kill anything with the limited repertoire of spells they know, but you can quickly feel useless compared to a standard caster in runs where istakills dont' work. Drains, curses and a more subtle approach are truly effective in a well coordinated party but won't make your first caster experience that more enjoyable.

That universal bard with str/dex in the mid 30s isn't solid enough for the areas where you want a universal bard ( it's going to get disabled 50% of times by the most common kd checks ) so you could as well go full charisma, and keep in mind that concept for when you can reincarnate with demigod stats. Bards are even more sought after than druids so from a effectiveness/welcome ratio it should be a clear winner but it's a pure support build ( caster variants being marginally more effective for pom/abyss mostly ), not sure how enjoyable you'll find it.

[Xalo]

For druid build I have:

Half-Elf/Dryadin
STR: 9
DEX: 10
CON: 13
WIS: 18
INT: 14
CHA: 8

19 druid, 1 ranger, 19 druid, 1 monk

01: SF Conj
03: GSF Conj
06: SF Trans
09: GSF Trans
12: Extend
15: Empower
18: SF Evoc
20: GSF Evoc
21: ESF Trans
24: ESF Conj
25: ESF Evoc
27: G Wis 1
29: G Wis 2
30: G Wis 3
33: G Wis 4, 5
36: G Wis 6
37: G Wis 7
39: G Wis 8

42: Legendary Spell Pen
45: LSF Trans
48: G Wis 9
51: G Wis 10
54: G Fort
57: LL Fort
60: Epic Reflexes

What do you think?

Xalo

[MurphysLawAgain]

I would dump save feats, accept the rubbish saves and take more LSF's. Also - which book would you use?

[Xalo]

Spell Penetration Book.


Xalo

[MurphysLawAgain]

D'oh

[Xalo]

I decided to do the PM build. I understand PMs totally rock LL levels and since this is my first build, I will be spending a lot of time in LLs and will be able to gather books in LL areas with this toon a lot easier than with a druid who lacks insta-kills and has to be up close to do the damage it does, especially with the new KD edits, no thank you!. I want you to have a look at my PM build, currently level 4:

Elf/Moon Elf
STR: 08
DEX: 16
CON: 12
WIS: 10
INT: 18
CHA: 08

All stats to INT

Final Int 66 = 20 start + 20 levelup + 10 feats + 14 items + 2 arti

3wizard
10pm
7wizard
20pm

Specialize: Necro
Bar: Enchant, Divination

01: SF Necro
03: SF Illusion
06: GSF Necro
09: GSF Illusion
12: Shield Proficiency
15: SF, GSF Divination
18: Silent Spell
20: Empower Spell
21: Great Intelligence 1
23: Epic Spell Focus Necromancy
24: Great Intelligence 2
26: Epic Spell Focus Illusion
27: Great Intelligence 3
29: Epic Spell Focus Divination
30: Great Intelligence 4
32: Automatic Silent Spell 1
33: Great Intelligence 5
35: Automatic Silent Spell 2
36: Great Intelligence 6
38: Automatic Silent Spell 3
39: Great Intelligence 7

41: Read Spell Penetration Book!
42: Legendary Spell Penetration
45: Legendary Spell Focus Necromancy
48: Legendary Spell Focus Illusion
51: Great Intelligence 8
54: Great Intelligence 9
57: Great Intelligence 10
60: Maximise Spell OR Greater Ruin

Which feat should I choose for level 60?

What do you guys think of the build?





Final AC for PM at Double Demi

10 - Base AC
14 - Palemaster AC
06 - Tumble AC
02 - Craft Armor AC
15 - Robe AC
17 - Deflection AC
20 - Dodge/Haste AC
12 - Dex AC (34 at double demi)
22 - Asmo Shield AC
17 - Natural

135 FINAL AC with 80 Craft Armor!
136 FINAL AC with 120 Craft Armor!

Did I calculate the AC correctly?

Xalo

[Yojimbo]

Greater Ruin and make sure you have 50 points in Spellcraft

For AC the Thids bracer grant +18 Armor so there is 3 more also I think the Asmo shield is 2 (Large Shield Base) + 18 (Shield AC Bonus) for 20 total instead of 22. Your AC total should be 136, 137 w/ max CA, GotF you are looking at 140/141.

[Raj]

He's going to play a moon elf so asmo shield, +14 burs are totally out of reach, but should be able to upgrade to illithid way before enter hells ( hopefully, cuz pms are already low in demand, a open subbie one doesn't sell well ).


If you're going pure then elf is pointless ( their ability to raise CC skills is useful for rogue ones ), derrzagon is a more solid choice.

Btw, pm truly rocks in: fey, myco, maze, sissy, thids; druid rocks everywhere.

[Xalo]

I don't see how a PM is "low in demand". I mean, your way more intelligent at HG then I am at this point, but by what I have been reading, draining bosses, mini-bosses, hard monsters doesn't seem all that useless to me. Making them easier to kill seems like it would be welcome in any party of mine. Of course, this is what I have read, still have yet to experience a good PM player but I hope to be one of those good PM players sometime soon, hopefully in the near future.

Btw, this is not to critique any of your advice as you have been most helpful, just pointing out the way I see it, as it seems I see it a little bit differently then what you do.
Xalo

[Yojimbo]

I think it is more that PM fills the same gap as Sorcerer and Wizard already do so they are in more competition the demand for Arcane is still high so they are still in demand but there is a much wider spectrum of viable options when compared with Druid who is mostly in demand for NB which only Druids can cast and the nearest spells and abilities to it still pale in comparison as well most are not AoE or those which are AoE have serious draw backs. Bards are also a high demand job for parties particularly end game but there has been a lot more done to alleviate their requirement and open the options available. The final "required" class is Cleric which mostly it fills much the same roll as Arcane but has many important party buffs and support spells as well there are 3 epic spells parties love for Clerics to have. Those 3 would be Miracle, Instruments of Faith, and Girdling of the Faithful and in that order.

[Xalo]

Okay, you win. I will reincarnate at 40 into a druid. You win, you win.

Xalo