Most Important Skills for a caster druid

[vorshlumpf]

Hi everyone,

I'm using tyranlthixis' Way of the Storm build for a druid:
highergroundpoa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=openbuild&action=display&thread=9421

Playing HC and not being able to reinc, and finding out that some builds are getting obsolete (like, apparently, my wizard...), has me paranoid.

What would you say are the most important skills for a caster druid? Other than the skill points being banked for Tumble and Discipline, I can advance 4 skills. The ones suggested are Animal Empathy, Concentration, Lore, and Spellcraft.

Concentration makes total sense.
Lore is important for arcane casters - is it as important for druids?
Animal Empathy helps with Creeping Doom - is that enough value to max it?
And Spellcraft.... what does this do for you in HG?
Are there any other skills I should consider above those?

Thanks.

- Niilo

[Vichya]

I don't think that Lore is important for a druid, but my experience is only playing a DC druid in end-game areas. The only damage spell I use is Elemental Swarm and its damage isn't boosted by Lore.

I'd take Parry instead, to reduce the amount of critical damage. I think that's rather important, especially as a HC character.

Spellcraft is important for two things: counterspelling and a second use of Greater Ruin. In order to counterspell you need to identify the enemy spell, which is a spellcraft check (pretty low one). With 50 ranks in spellcraft you get another use of greater ruin.

[vorshlumpf]

Thanks for the input, Vichya! Yeah, I think I'll prepare for a parry dump at level 20 when I take the paladin level. Time for another spreadsheet! :o)

As for spellcraft, this toon won't be getting greater ruin, so that's not a consideration. Good point on counterspelling. I've actually never done that before, not even PnP D&D. The max DC for identifying a spell is 24, though - with +12 to INT I'd only need 17 modified ranks in Spellcraft to guarantee success.

Spellcraft also gives a +1 bonus to saves vs spells for every 5 (modified) ranks. But this won't go above the +20 limit on saving throws, so maybe this is not a big deal in LL?

So, based on your advice (and pending any further input), I'll stop putting ranks into Lore and save them for Parry, instead. I have 6 ranks in Spellcraft, and will get +5 from tags and +7 from INT, so I'll grab 7 more to give me 25 (one extra to help in times when I have penalties and to give me +5 to saves vs spells).

Anyone have thoughts on AE?

- Niilo

[vorshlumpf]

My calculations for skill points are (with INT 12):
1st level druid: (4+1)*4=20
57 druid levels: (4+1)*57=285
1 paladin level: 2+1=3
1 monk level: 4+1=5
Half-elf bonus: 60
=========
Total: 373

If I go with:
AnEm 63, Conc 63, Disc 43, Lore 9, Prry 43, SpCr 13, Tumb 40

I'll have 99 points left over. What other skills would be wise to take? A Listen dump at level 40 (monk level)? Craft Armor? Heal?

- Niilo

[chirality]

I'd definitely second Vichya's Parry recommendation. You won't be able to get it that high but anything will help (if only marginally--but it can't hurt that's for sure).

If you aren't getting Ruin then Spellcraft isn't worth much (of course this is also needed for other vanilla epics but if Ruin isn't on the agenda then others definitely shouldn't be). You could put some in for counterspelling as you've planned in the last post but I doubt you'll be doing much of that anyway. Still, can't hurt.

Like Vichya said Lore really isn't worth much on a druid, and although he had a point as far as DC druid goes vs. one that could potentially be using more Lore-boosted damage spells, even then it certainly won't be "needed". That said, you don't really have much else to drop the points on so it couldn't hurt.

I don't think maxing AE just for Creep is really worth it (as you'd mainly be using it for debuff, not for the actual damage itself). However, it can't hurt, and more importantly, you could really get some mileage out of using AE for its "original" purpose in hardcore. Scorps in Desert, Epic Leopard...Polar Bears or Wolves in Uro maybe...there are a few runs with mobs where you can Dom something that's actually useful (if not amazing). Also, with the summons improvement edit that will be dropping with the next update--who knows, animal companion might get nicely enhanced.

Listen would help you land touch spells, and as a Wis based skill you could easily get it very high. But eh, nowhere near as important/useful on a caster as on a tank. Still, certainly wouldn't harm your build to have it.

Craft Armor is probably my last choice here. The skill point investment : AC return just isn't worth that much for most casters, and you will have a hard time getting more than +2 with hardcore party makeup and gear limitations.

It comes down to personal preference really, as once you have the "essentials" covered the rest is just fluff icing.

Edit: Also...with your left over points, I would definitely suggest taking your pal/monk "dump" class skills as high as you can in LLs as cross-class skills. Sure it's cross-class but you have nothing more important to spend the points on. Discipline would be first priority in my opinion; then Parry (also want a Parry dump as class skill, however many you can put into it at 40); then Tumble I guess if you can hit another multiple of 5. With robes slagging won't be a huge issue but again, you have nothing more pressing to do with those points and you may as well take Disc as high as you can. Same goes for Parry--especially since you have to get over the 20-point hump for it to do anything; after 20, the more you have the more sense it makes from a cost-benefit standpoint.

Of course this is all just my opinion and I'm no pro vet so maybe someone else has better ideas.

[Vichya]

Parry is a druid class skill. You can get is as high as you want.

With regards to spellcraft, keep in mind that there are enemies that use curse song to lower skills.

[gandoron]

I don't believe listen helps with touch spells. Lore can do a really impressive job with ES. I prefer a monk+pal splash, (or bard to start off with to cast spells), but pure get a more powerful NB, etc.

-G

[Vichya]

Nov 6, 2011 13:03:08 GMT gandoron said:

Lore can do a really impressive job with ES.

Lore doesn't improve Elemental Swarm damage as far as I know.

[chirality]

Mmm wasn't even thinking that Parry is druid class skill.

Also...I could be wrong about that as well but I'm pretty sure Listen helps land vs. mobs with conceal. I have missed touch attacks due to conceal in the past I think--although I could be interpreting the log incorrectly.

[Yojimbo]

I don't see any need for a single point in Lore IIRC all Druid spells are boosted by AE not Lore if they are boosted at all. For Spell Craft I would think 50 base ranks is what you want since I believe that is the requirement for 2x Greater Ruin. If you can fit in the feats I would consider maxing Discipline since Tumble will only net you 4 more AC and you have Monk splash which will make up for that lack. I would agree that what ever is left goes into Parry to reduce damage taken from critical hits.

[simpetar]

Nov 6, 2011 17:52:36 GMT Yojimbo said:

I don't see any need for a single point in Lore IIRC all Druid spells are boosted by AE not Lore if they are boosted at all.

The only druid spell boosted by AE is Creeping doom. Most other elemental spells (except ES) are boosted by Lore (Ice Storm, Flame Strike, Call Lightning, Fire Storm, Word of Balance, Inferno, Vine Mine, Vitriolic Ray,...). Besides, druids get their own spell to buff AE with: Charm Person or Animal. While useful, I think Parry and other skills are slightly better investments for than Lore.

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Heal yet. It is a druid skill, based on Wisdom - so it requires less than max to be effective. You can feel the difference of having a decent Healing Circle around you, especially with some strong buffs on (Gr. Stoneskin, Energy Buffer,...). Oh and spamming Mass Cure XY while in tougher areas will make the rest of your party love you.

simpetar

[Yojimbo]

It is all shifter stuff that gets boosted from AE thats what I was thinking of wasn't it. I still say I would focus more on defensive skills or ones that net you a functional bonus ie 50 Spell Craft.

[uncanny]

The summon capability is not to be sneezed at, imho. The druid versions are probably the only useful summons on the server (in terms of being able to help), once they're buffed up they're potentially hells capable (shallow levels like Tia I mean), so msot of LL should be very usable. And empathy always helps . The ranger ones are a few levels lower than the Druid version, and even those are very handy in many areas for a pure ranger.

Not saying they'll make the party invincible but in times they can make the difference between impossible and doable.

[vorshlumpf]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I'll look at maxing AE and Parry, and take a second look at Lore.

- Niilo