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Post by Shroomery_ on Feb 2, 2012 14:47:09 GMT
How does this look for a fallen angel work around?
Human - Fallen Angel STR: 8 DEX: 8 CON: 12 WIS: 18 INT: 16 CHA: 8
01: Blooded, Alertness 03: WF Unarmed 06: FE Outsiders, Expertise 09: GWF Unarmed 10: FE Abberations 12: Imp Crit Unarmed 15: Armor Prof Heavy 18: Imp Expertise 21: Prowess 24: EWF 25: G WIS 1 27: Armor Skin 28: G WIS 2 30: G WIS 3 31: G WIS 4 33: G WIS 5 34: G WIS 6 36: G WIS 7 37: G WIS 8 39: G WIS 9 40: Dragon shape
follow same LL progression cata posted above!
Shroomery_
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Post by darc on Feb 15, 2012 16:37:17 GMT
I feel like I'm missing something. Why 5/7/28 and not 20 Ranger for max ab, 5 Druid (cause you have to) and 15 Shifter ala the Swiss Army Tank? EDIT: I think it might be that you needed the shifter levels for Dragon Shape? How useful are you finding that without LFF?
Any reason to use human over gnome other than aesthetics?
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Post by redbeard on Feb 15, 2012 17:26:36 GMT
This build is designed as primarily a shifter but with a focus on humanoid tanking. The Swiss Army Tank is designed as a tank that uses shifter humanoid forms.
The ranger levels give better AB and the fourth attack. They also reduce the DC of shifter form abilities. This makes it a better tank without too much damage to the other shifter abilities.
Dragonshape only requires high wisdom (25? 26?) and legendary shifter. I think that's 11 levels of shifter.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 15, 2012 21:15:19 GMT
What redbeard said Tbh I only actually took Dragon Shape for a lack of other feats to take at the time, I'm sure if I rebuilt or reinc'd this I'd find a pretty good reason to drop Dragon Shape altogether, think I've used it once in the Coil on Nessus and maybe once in Min but that was it. And it's Demi now lol so I've used it twice in 9 layers of Hells Cata
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Post by desocupado on Feb 16, 2012 2:12:40 GMT
Agreed. I tried to fit in the LFF Dragon 1, for the gust, but dragon is just too troublesome and cumbersome to use.
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Post by darc on Feb 16, 2012 17:41:43 GMT
At first I thought it was a DC issue but I decided to re-read the Shifter doc on the forum: For spells cast in shifted form, caster level (CL) is Druid level + Shifter level (including legendary levels if the character's control class is Druid or Shifter).
Base DC for non-spell abilities is equal to 10 + Form Rank (listed with each form) + Wis modifier + (foci * 3). Foci are described further below.
Levels only apply to caster level and poly morph level. I guess my question is: Is the extra couple of CL worth the trade off of a couple extra AB? If so what spells?
Or did I miss out reading some other documentation, or forget some other aspect of how this works?
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 16, 2012 20:36:25 GMT
This build doesn't use any forms with Spells. I mean ok it has forms that can cast Darkness and Web but how often do you see a Shifter using them? Certainly not in hells or other end game areas.
There is nearly always some one who can darkness in the only run on HG it is required and I don't think I've ever seen Web used by anyone on a Hell or other end game run.
All it's abilities are non spell abilities which I beleive take Ranger levels into account for Polymorph Level and the DC is not based on Class Level at all.
This means for example with this build, my Basilisk Death Gaze ability has exactly the same DC as my Construct/Undead Shifter which is 10 Druid and 50 Shifter.
That is why I built this build the way I did, I wanted a Shifter with very basic abilities that could tank really well and have Max DC.
It gets Crowd Control, Insta Kill, Tanking Ability, great Acid and Cold Damage for PF's and Maleb's, Curse Song, and the added bonus is you rarely need to rest cause your only forms that required you to rest for EP are Dragon and lets be honest with no LFF when you gunna use that?
Saying that though even the Swiss Army Tank with CC Ranger will get Max DC on it's non Spell based abilities with it's Undead and Humanoid forms.
Cata
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Post by darc on Feb 17, 2012 1:41:21 GMT
yeah, so I don't get why you didn't take 20 Ranger for max AB. Still feel like I'm missing something but thanks for posting the build and explaining.
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Post by desocupado on Feb 17, 2012 3:12:51 GMT
yeah, so I don't get why you didn't take 20 Ranger for max AB. Still feel like I'm missing something but thanks for posting the build and explaining. This is the main difference between a Ranger CC and a Shifter CC is CL. (added some clarifications on original text) . It gets great Acid and Cold Damage for PF's and Maleb's and Curse Song and Manticore SpikesI would like to point that a 19/5/16 Rg/Dr/Shifter is also viable and uses Wild shape and a humanoid epode but suffers from CL (damage) flaw that this build doesn't have. It gets mainly Medusa Stone gaze, Basilisk Death Gaze, Dire Tirger Knockdown and Jello Cube's Disarm. I call it shifter mode for newbies .
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 17, 2012 8:45:03 GMT
- Wisdom AC no longer applies when shifted from any source. While shifted, Druids and Shifters receive 2 + ((Shifter level including LLs / 10) * 2) Natural AC. This AC does not stack with Barkskin, but is undispellable. This is why I took 28 Shifter instead of 20 Ranger. It says Shifter Levels not Ranger or Druid Levels. AC Goodness 140 ac, 150 with Imp Exp, in Drow/Lash/Kobold form, yummy This build gets 13 natural ac undispellable, a 20 Ranger build would get 7 I believe, if my Math is correct, since your CC would then be Ranger and not Shifter. Cata
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Post by desocupado on Feb 17, 2012 9:31:01 GMT
- Wisdom AC no longer applies when shifted from any source. While shifted, Druids and Shifters receive 2 + ((Shifter level including LLs / 10) * 2) Natural AC. This AC does not stack with Barkskin, but is undispellable. This is why I took 28 Shifter instead of 20 Ranger. It says Shifter Levels not Ranger or Druid Levels. AC Goodness 140 ac, 150 with Imp Exp, in Drow/Lash/Kobold form, yummy This build gets 13 natural ac undispellable, a 20 Ranger build would get 7 I believe, if my Math is correct, since your CC would then be Ranger and not Shifter. Cata The natural AC is a point, but Natural armor from the amulet you wear is "naturally" undispellable as well, no? Now expertise, that's very good for extreme AB shapes like Kenku and the non-humanoid. I'll steal try this idea
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 17, 2012 9:48:24 GMT
The ammy I was intending to wear had no AC on it So the Natural AC was nifty Of course now I wear an ammy with AC lol. Hmmm does the Natural AC from Ammy and the shifter natural AC stack? Cata
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Post by kite on Feb 17, 2012 12:19:09 GMT
Unless its changed, natural armour from items doesn't merge when shifted, so having more shifter levels (as in this build) should result in more ac.
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Post by dragonledak on Feb 17, 2012 14:39:07 GMT
Natural armor does merge, it is shield ac that does not, and the natural armor bonuses do not stack.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 20, 2012 13:13:18 GMT
After a very nice Nessus run this gal is now 2xDemi, have to say damage output wise she didn't do nearly as much as the last time she ran Nessus but she still came in over 100k damage.
Gotta say am very pleased with this build.
Cata
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