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Post by elnar shadowfox on Sept 5, 2012 3:34:58 GMT
Well, this got me thinking so I made a few simple toons as well to test the basic penalty/bonus rules. If there's no penalty for the above cases, I wondered, is there ever a penalty? For that matter, are bonus class XP bonuses applied? Good news is basic penalty was applied (or that's bad news depending on your builds ) Dwarf/Lycan (because fast, dex bonus & regen are good at low levels) FC Dwarf: Fighter FC Lycan: Nothing listed so per docs, same as base Both 6,110 XP Both at Arctic Wastes, Enraged Crabs Rogue 4 gets 31 XP per crab Rogue 3 / Barbarian 1 gets 25 XP (80% of 31 is 24.8) Nice. This doesn't answer the question about more complicated FC calculations but at least the penalty is applied in one simple case so the mechanism can apply. However, at the risk of digressing this thread, the troubling news is the basic bonus was not applied for a Treant Druid. Human, FC Any Treant, BC Druid (+20%) Both 3,100 XP Both at Arctic Wastes, Enraged Crabs Human Druid 3 gets 32 XP (same as the Lycan Rogue 3 and Lycan Rogue 2 / Barb 1 btw) Treant Druid 3 gets 32 XP. A 20% bonus on 32 is 38.4 I'll sleep on it and probably level them both up to 4 or 5 and try again or see if anything else comes to mind to try. A real shame if it holds since I've just been leveling up a Treant Druid and have made several Treant Shifters... Elnar
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Post by Paradoom on Sept 6, 2012 8:29:50 GMT
That is very strange. I have built several Treants and I know it applies. I never bothered though with that low levels. But I compared it sometimes when running close to lvl 40 and in LL/Hell areas. The 20% bonus as a druid definitly worked.
Like so often maybe u have to change servers after creation to make that bonus apply. If that works then after reset of the server where u created the toon it applies there as well. Got to test this though.
EDIT: Testing: No difference in XP as Treant (20% bonus xp) or Doppelganger (0% bonus xp) Druid.
Treant Level 1 Crab 55xp Doppelganger Level 1 Crab 55xp
Treant Level 2 Crab 40xp Doppelganger Level 2 Crab 40xp
So as the looks of it, it realy does not apply at this level. I changed servers of course, to see if that was the issue. Testing more.
Ok now I took high level chars to the desert Drayadkin level 60+ Stinger Archer 352xp Treant level 60+ Stinger Archer 420xp
Results: So it works for higher level toons without a doubt but it seems it doesnt apply for starting toons (not that u realy need it at that point). When it actually starts to kick in I cannot answer though. Maybe when leveling up you can verify this by comparing your xp with others. I could imagine it works at level 4+ because u can get the level 2 (and for other toons level 3) for free at the tree in town, which would be no issue at all then.
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Post by elnar shadowfox on Sept 7, 2012 2:21:24 GMT
Thanks Paradoom, I appreciate you taking a look. Based on your suggestion, I started to level up the Human and Treant Druid to see when the bonus XP would kick in. Luckily it did not take much. Human Druid 4, 6,126XP: Enraged Crab 33 Treant Druid 4, 6,081 XP: Enraged Crab 39 I figure the extra XP compared to the prior test was due to active user count. It was 50 before, was 25 during this round of test. So - we know the bonus can be applied, we know the penalty can be applied, and we are back to the Human Fallen Angel questions. On re-reading the classes from earlier posts, I think all can be explained by a favorable, sequential, implementation of the FC rules. Fallen Angel has Cleric as FC, so first any Cleric levels are discounted. That leaves no more than 2 classes and Human has "Highest" as FC so one of the 2 remaining is always discarded, leaving one class and no penalty. In other words, Human can have any 2 base classes without penalty. Human Fallen Angel can have any 2 base classes without penalty OR any 2 base classes plus Cleric without penalty. I think you could get an XP penalty with Human Fallen Angel with something like Rogue 3, Fighter 3, Monk 1. Or, maybe more practically, a Herald of Storms with Sorc and Druid and a Monk splash. Elnar
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Post by buddhamind on Sept 7, 2012 4:23:47 GMT
On re-reading the classes from earlier posts, I think all can be explained by a favorable, sequential, implementation of the FC rules. Fallen Angel has Cleric as FC, so first any Cleric levels are discounted. That leaves no more than 2 classes and Human has "Highest" as FC so one of the 2 remaining is always discarded, leaving one class and no penalty. In other words, Human can have any 2 base classes without penalty. Human Fallen Angel can have any 2 base classes without penalty OR any 2 base classes plus Cleric without penalty. That was initially what I was thinking too, but it does not explain build #4, the Elf Fallen Angel with no cleric levels.
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Post by chirality on Sept 7, 2012 5:30:43 GMT
Hmm I wonder if this is related to requiring dying + starting on fresh server, etc. to "kick in" like many other factors (I believe relating to PC Hide but I certainly don't know for sure).
I am wondering why the varying results which do not agree from elnar and para's tests with toons of varying levels. This is very interesting.
I wonder how often we fall victim ( " " ) to playing for periods without benefiting from BC xp for instance.
I also wonder if maybe the way ghost party member xp + HG bonus % per party member comes into play is possibly the explanation for things such as buddha's #4 toon.
Buddha, you mentioned earlier that in some of your tests toons died. Also that the tests were performed serially.
What about trying to test this rigorously with dying, relogging, swapping servers in the middle of an ongoing test? Assuming that phantom party member xp/bonus xp % for party members does not introduce more bizarre variables into play, it would be safe to discount server population for the purpose of determining why #4 received no penalty. So it should be fine to have serial tests with fluctuating player count. However I wonder if dying and then relogging to fresh server?
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Post by BigStick on Sept 7, 2012 11:26:11 GMT
All of the tests I performed were with characters that had been leveled to that point at a previous point in time and logged in several times. Dying is one way of controlling the level during testing so that all characters are kept at the same level and the XP does not exceed the level cap. ER Bandits are great for that vs. a naked level 9 character.
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Post by elnar shadowfox on Sept 7, 2012 21:20:00 GMT
That was initially what I was thinking too, but it does not explain build #4, the Elf Fallen Angel with no cleric levels. Maybe that should have been a careful re-read This gets curiouser and curiouser: I made an Elf/Fallen Angel but used Rogue 3/Monk 1 because the Rogue gets level 3 at the tree for free. That toon got the penalty as expected. Human Druid 4, enraged crab: 31 XP Elf/Fallen Angel Rogue 3/ Monk 1: 25 XP At that point, I was thinking it must be something about the way BigStick tested... But ,just to be thorough, I made an Elf/Fallen Angel Fighter 3/ Monk 1. And that toon did NOT get the penalty. Elf/Fallen Angel Fighter 3/ Monk 1: 31 XP So I dunno. Maybe Elf or Fallen Angel have a secret Favored Class: Fighter? Or Fighter/Monk is a secret no-penalty combo? Elnar
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