textwall warning! (might be worth reading though, I promise I'm trying
)
You missed my points. It's not even worth me looking like a troll here, but yeah, I don't know what to say other than it's simply wrong.
As for the bonus spells known thing: I just disagree that's it's either required (hardly), a good idea (absolutely not), or heplful to promoting variety and build options (the opposite), and explained why in "other thread". As for your calculation, heh, I guess there was misunderstanding, but what you posted was that "only pre-LL pariah levels qualify" and by that I assumed you meant levels after pariah status was attained, hence "pariah level", otherwise just call it "levels" period (which again is either 22 or 23 levels). Otherwise ...
If you meant something else, then it doesn't make sense at all, unless you're really saying that all pariahs should get full sorc bonus spells known as if they had 40 sorc levels pre-LL...or if not then what is the variable...??
As for spell ped @ PSK trans idea, I don't even understand the reasoning or attraction of this. Or is your suggestion that PSK trans is otherwise such a wasted feat on pariah that this waste would balance out the extra spells
(as I'll address below in another 5000 words, PSK trans is not a good option for pariah anyway, zzz bad) I don't get this for so many reasons that it'd take another 2 pages just to explain why I don't get it. Is spell ped thing mentioned only due to unlocking bonus spells known? Suffice to say I disagree that all pariahs should be barb CC by default and gain the advantages of a sorc CC, I guess that's what you're saying?, but ermmm that's a bit hard to fathom
Also, the concept of a "tradeoff" being in terms of "get same benefit as real sorc, just later down the road" is fail; that's not a tradeoff, it's a direct power increase...there's no sacrifice involved...that's "somewhat tangentially" similar reasoning to "sorc is balanced vs wiz because you have to make another sorc to have different schools for different runs", it's just demonstrably fail...
I guess I consider myself to have a decent bit of knowledge about pariahs. In fact basically zero experience pre-nerf other than hearsay or maybe watching some nub HC pariahs in pre-LL zones or grinding Uro, but post-nerf I've watched them perform in I think every run in the mod, except prince/pelor fight, but including hells (lots), abo (maybe just once), ely (at least once), and most if not nearly all abyss runs. This experience I don't consider to be "alot" (pros know me as a nub) but the understanding is derived from many hours watching players off all calibers across basically the entire mod. Incidentally I've also levelled and tagged a barb CC one from scratch earlier this year and recently began LLs with it, so maybe in the near future I could give personal playtest analysis in hells (obviously not abyss abo or ely though
.
Anyway, regardless of build choices or CC, pariah still absolutely pwns hells (one needs only read to understand this). As for "generally speaking"? Pariah in wreckage of uber damage PM nerf? it's quite impressive doing what post-nerf barb CC pariah "is allowed to do", aka trans + 2 or possibly "2+" other schools, which still translates into a large or at the very least "legit" portion of a real sorc's job, and in fact it is (or can be) equally (or more) powerfun than sorc in the runs/parties/situations/offensive output it's designed for. And that's before mentioning post-nerf sorc CC pariah which--after factoring in player-based variables (demi, gear, tag, knowledge/skill etc) as I mentioned in other post--is actually capable of pretty much being a "real sorc" job in terms of versatility and still meeting/exceeding real sorc "power" in (again) the runs/paries/situations it's designed to pwn.
Afaik the "abomination pariah" or similars/derivatives remains unposted but any vet who's familiar with "sorc CC pariah" builds can attest that it's powerful and versatile, perhaps even remarkably so, and the "proven conquering power" of a pariah of this nature shall be accepted, just as raw power and offensive output of any (nonnub) pariah, period, remains unquestioned and respected. Back to barb CC though, it's similarly unquestioned in terms of power and ability to dominate with "some" or even "much" of the versatility of a sorc, and potentially or certainly exceeding the "pure power" in given situations.
Anyway
, discounting my analysis (which in my humble opinion is 100% fair and accurate) as "naysaying" is ironic since it's exactly what you asked for. I'd agree that if the only basis for claiming don't buff it was "zots" then yeah that's arguably "naysaying", but that's not the case here.
The premise of being bad is simply wrong, or to be generous, overstated and misleading, as others indicated. I didn't even mention the important aspect of "other classes need buff more" like KE etc pointed out; I was merely trying to explain that you're mistaken about the class "needing" a buff due to being bad. Thus, even disregarding the devtime angle, it's not justified (although as stated, some things sure are justified, like being more forgiving and fun in regards to appearance, or even as I admitted, or could be arguably justifiable, like full % sorc bonus slots).
Despite long text wall and rambling sentences (both in my OP "derail post" as well as this one
) the content is there to be read if you can brave the hassle, and as far as I know, it's more or less the correct analysis (I have nothing to gain by claiming pariahs are good if they're really not...and I'm an infamous class whiner so if I had any doubts I'd hop on board for sure
). I'm not trying to be arrogant or rude. (not claiming i'm some uber pro, far from it! I'd embarrassed-ly hang my head if I'm overstepping and some pro wants to correct me)
Anyway,
desocupado:
No idea where you got that para feat breakdown from. Did you ever build or discuss build of paragon pariah before? You fail to understand basic feat/school progression and intent of toon to not be a two-trick pony; premise of "there's plenty of room in LLs to get pariah necessities, so without PSKs, it's only fluff" is completely wrong. In fact post nerf it's the total opposite: paragon pariah feats are devoted to "covering the bases" that they couldn't afford in LLs. (even core casters shouldn't waste para feats on extraneous PSKs since most of them are bad cost vs. benefit: properly built core can afford to cover/max more schools with covering karsus for mages and maybe +1 extra for fewer-starting-school-and-thus-fail cleric or druid)
Take a look at matt's (m4dl4l344343 whatever) posted pariah build, which is in fact legit for wiki/newbie promotion as a solid reference for post-nerf pariah build; consider those para feats he has...do you see any "three spare feats for planar adapt"? (as for other forums post-nerf pariah build, they're fail and shall be ignored as irrelevant, however some commentary isn't such as wolly's suggestion @ feng's build) no, there's no luxurious room for planar adapt: in fact we must even "waste" some precious paras for stuff other casters acquire earlier...which leads to another problem with inherent fail reasoning of pariah qualifying for paragon spells: a) ability of sorc CC to qualify for karsus is a primary point of sorc CC; b) pariah can barely afford what they "want" anyway even WITH para feats; c) lol only arcane PSK remotely worth having for a pariah would be karsus anyway so the entire argument is lame and funny.