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Post by Xiayu on Jan 16, 2015 0:06:58 GMT
While the inflicts on Imbue Arrow are a nice touch for almost non-existent Sorcerers/Wizards CC AA, it can't really be used at all in its current state. As a minimum you will want 55 levels as a caster for buffs, leaving you with 1-5 levels for AA.
Which means your Spell Penetration check will be: 1-5 (AA level) + 20. Plus 3 uses per day doesn't feel like much.
It would be nice if both of these could be increased ^^
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Post by Twilight Semner on Jan 16, 2015 1:40:46 GMT
Seems like in order for it to be useful you would need at least as much as SP as CC AAs get. Maybe just changing the formula all around to (Wizard/Sorcerer Level + AA Level + 20 + 1d20) would be better. I don't think it's going to break the game if the majority of AA builds get +1 SP on their imbue arrow, or even if Wiz/Sorc CC AAs are getting 75 + 1d20 to theirs. I also don't see any reason why Wiz/Sorc CC AAs shouldn't also get unlimited uses, especially since theirs already does significantly less damage.
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Post by bazukar on Jan 16, 2015 4:37:24 GMT
The only reason for using it is the inflict; the damage is so poor I have yet to run into a situation where it was a valid option. (outside maybe desert  ) 150-180 damage with a low DC? TBH all the base AA abilities are extremely poor and could use improvements considering an AA has one role: Damage. And it is only average in that department. (among damage focused builds) I was tempted to try a caster CC AA till I found out about the restrictions Xiayu mentioned above. I think the buffs suggested would go a long way to making the other side of AA more viable. |
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Post by Twilight Semner on Jan 16, 2015 5:15:42 GMT
Another consideration is the duration of the infliction. I haven't ever tested a Wiz/Sorc AA so I'm not sure how long it lasts, but suffice to say, if it doesn't last more than a couple of rounds and you have to give up a round of attacks to use it, what exactly have you gained? If the duration already lasts a good while, I guess this is a moot point, but I thought it might be worth bringing up.
And yeah, Imbue damage, even if you are AA CC is pretty lame. For a pure AA it's what, 50d6? Or does it cap at 30d6? In either case, it's way too low to be useful. Even at 50d6 that's only an average of 175 damage and that's IF they fail their save. Certain seems like it could use a substantial boost in the ballpark of, say, increasing the dice to d12s. Would increase the average damage from 175 to 325, which still isn't game-breaking.
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Post by fallenwizard on Jan 16, 2015 10:34:37 GMT
AA "skills" are as Baz noted basicly never used, because they deal substantialy less than your basic attacks. With my AA only runs I even bother resting for to get access for skills are Ely for posible map 5 death arrow on prismatic golem if party lacks SR drop/death magic user, think I've killed 2 prismatics as AA (dont ask me why I've done more than 1 Ely run with it). Other reason being.. Well.. That's about it. I used imbue arrow to kill fumes (screams in GM is most common version) in abyss when there was no instakill available, produces single hit of kb/round and bypasses concealment, I suppose would work the same in hells, just never been in such situation in there.
Oh, Seeker Arrow is nice when you fool around post runs, since it ignores AC (no one can hit the 140ac tanks) you can do 20-40 damage a hit to your target depending his magic imm.
Overaly I think they death arrow could use some boost aswell, maybe +5DC scale from paragon levels or so.
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Post by Yojimbo on Jan 16, 2015 13:39:02 GMT
Why not change all AA calculations to what the damage arrow uses 3/5 Wiz/Sorc + AA or at least start there would give a good boost to all those class abilities for a Wiz/Sorc CC build. It doesn't improve them for anything else but would be a decent start and maybe just have in LLs for players with at least 35 levels of AA + Wiz/Sorc get unlimited uses of the abilities.
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Post by bazukar on Jan 16, 2015 18:34:13 GMT
Not to hijack, but since we're talking about other AA abilities, can death arrow have a shorter cooldown, and not go on CD when you die? The max DC is baseline for the equivalent non demi open sub caster so even putting it down to every 30-45 seconds wouldnt be OP. It could be a function of level based cooldown or something.
Hail of arrows is complete garbage. I only use it in order to laugh at it.
I agree with fallen about seeker arrow, with the caveat that occasionally the interposing hand can be useful. Kind of.
I only speak up here because I have recently gotten my AA into the hells and abyss and so far....I am disappointed. (ab is a complete non issue, it has farseers, oc/dc, weapon spec, listen and nearly full KV data)
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Post by hackenslay on Jan 17, 2015 4:19:50 GMT
I find the single target death arrow much more useful since there's no cooldown. Not sure if the DC is higher but you can at least pick your targets and hit the vulnerable ones.
I agree with the interposing too, the -10AB is very handy in small LL parties or with sub-optimal tanks.
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Post by Torin on Jan 17, 2015 9:03:23 GMT
CC: Bards should also be included.
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) 150-180 damage with a low DC? TBH all the base AA abilities are extremely poor and could use improvements considering an AA has one role: Damage. And it is only average in that department. (among damage focused builds) I was tempted to try a caster CC AA till I found out about the restrictions Xiayu mentioned above. I think the buffs suggested would go a long way to making the other side of AA more viable.
