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Post by tank on Oct 18, 2015 17:38:18 GMT
I can't believe how the tension has exploded here; the fewer people play, the more the sugar sprinkles hits the fan... Why? because we all grind the same content over and over, and cant make it more interesting by editing our stats and gear highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/23350/why-serversso you just keep popping in pretending to be better than everyone else here, buddy.
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Post by stooldrum on Oct 21, 2015 20:40:00 GMT
just an observation no grammar involved if players want a more challenging run wouldn't have crap players make it more challenging?
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Post by stooldrum on Oct 21, 2015 20:49:58 GMT
id like to add that in general I liked kratlins post
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Post by ScrewedUp on Oct 21, 2015 23:12:58 GMT
just an observation no grammar involved if players want a more challenging run wouldn't have crap players make it more challenging? There's challenging and then there's totally unfun, for example last time I was on a run with you, you kept using the beholder dispel ray on mobs for no reason, with partymembers standing in the line of fire. People having to rest thrice as much because somebody isn't able to hit the right F key is just plain tedious.
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Post by rainbowdash on Oct 22, 2015 10:09:27 GMT
I do not think that this is tedious at all. I think this thread has been pretty productive.
I think most people have a pretty clear picture about how every participant of this topic feels about playing the game on HG at the moment and that in itself has a lot of worth to it in my opinion.
And to not be the guy that is just commenting from the sideline I'll tell you about me personally too.
I myself like playing on the server a whole lot at the moment. But that is only because I mostly run in a small experienced group of people who know a lot and they are kind enough to share their knowledge with me. Even tho its not always in a kind way its always aimed at improving me as a player and I am a pretty horrible at that. I often need to get reminded to use what spell on what mob and about effective damagetypes etc. But those people play with me because I appreciate their advice and im communicating if I'am not knowing/remembering stuff. I also enjoy talking to them on a personal level which is quite nice.
To sum it up I like to run with a small group that is communicating. And that is the key. Just like woq said I doubt that anybody will get left out of he asks for help just like the newbie-channel of the server proves where pretty much all people help the newish players as good as they can.
I get that its frustrating to not get into a run that one is waiting for for a long time and then miss it when other people are running it. But I think there are ways around that. 1. get on the active side of things and start a run yourself 2. ask for help in a run 3. look what people are doing and ask if you can join em. (and if not there are reasons i bet. I for one like smaller runs to because you can experiment with stuff and its not getting all wiped out by rg/clapspam)
But i completely lost my train of thought now.
Anyway I think that this thread as been most productive in showing how everyone is feeling and also shows that one can improve a lot of ingameplay by starting to communicate - given that requires one to be open to critque.
just tossing in my 5 pence ^.^
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Post by mongoose2 on Dec 27, 2015 18:12:04 GMT
I've had my own experiences in regards to the server having gone a bit downhill, mainly due to loss of people. I think a lot of the reason why it has lost a lot if people is something someone said about cliques, and an intolerance/mild to major neglect of new players.
I used to come on a bit, not a lot, and some years back, but it was enough that I remember a lot of the game. However since few people remember me I was also treated to the "newbie" experience as it were. Not a great experience. Any game this old is going to lose players over the years. People die, move, lose interest, whatever. You name it there are loads of reasons why people stop playing. So ya need a fresh influx of people. If you don't get it, or can't keep the few you do have say goodbye to it all. Except for the few real hard core players of course that will never leave. Sorry. They are not enough to have a fun place to play at if you ask me.
It was nice, and nostalgic to come back and play for a bit. Game hasn't changed much, but the atmosphere has. Used to be there were more people, and more choices of people to play with. People also were better behaved, and in my view valued others more. Not sure why that is. Maybe because there were more people to dilute a lot of the nonsense, and keep people from getting on each others nerves. I don't know. That's not what I see today.
What I mainly see is a lot of neglect for anyone who isn't going 100 miles an hour, and a real lack of concern for fellow players. That is what I see. If you want to understand why the server has gone downhill I think that is why. I agree that veterans kill a game, and I disagree that cliques and guilds can help save it. Seems to me that is what kills it, as that mentality becomes stronger as the populations shrinks. People turn inward, not outward when that happens, and nothing good comes from that socially speaking.
I agree with a lot of what I read in this thread, and some I don't. I don't think it is lack of run calls, or anything like that which is the problem. These things seem like surface issues to me, and they are, in my humble opinion symptomatic of the problems that exist. New players are driven away by the lack of concern, and callous disregard on the part of many of the long term players. Not all, but enough that I can use the word many.
This is just my take on things, and maybe I am wrong, but I have seen a lot of these things first hand in just a very short period of time. Just my take on things. May not be worth a hill of beans.
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Post by mongoose2 on Dec 27, 2015 18:20:42 GMT
I can't believe how the tension has exploded here; the fewer people play, the more the sugar sprinkles hits the fan... Why? I think it has to do with toxicity. It exists whenever you have too much of anything in high concentration. When talking about a social system you are going to get jockeying for position, which results in a lot of petty squabbles. When you have a lot of people this is diluted as it were by the sheer number of people, and the balancing effect that diverse personalities have in any given social group. However if you whittle away at the numbers you will eventually be left with similar people, and depending on the situation this can be good, or bad. If bad, which it can be depending on the environment, you are going to end up with ever more conflict as the numbers continue to fall. I could be way off on this though.
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Post by chirality on Dec 28, 2015 5:53:56 GMT
This is a well-balanced and reasonable opinion. It's sad to see that HG went downhill since last time you played. How long ago was that? Maybe someone out there remembers you, after all Your username doesn't ring any bells for me though, I'll admit. I'm concerned by several issues you mentioned. If people are showing neglect towards new players, or lack of concern, their names should be known to all; sometimes all it takes is a bit of communication and a lot of ingame issues disappear magically. Or is it just all vets in general that show disregard for people that don't do fast runs? I can think of PLENTY of vets that struggle to complete basic runs in recommended time alotment (or even fail to complete runs at all), so if you're looking for a slower-paced and more relaxed party environment, I can give some suggestions to some vets that are from dedicated gamers. It's sad that we have a DM like Sabregirl who goes out of her way to provide special events and guidance for newbies. Maybe some new players are unaware of webdash or simply have bad luck logging in at the right times, because I'm a bit surprised that new players would be feeling like no one has any concern for them. After all, people here generally do their best to try showing new players support and friendship. It's always a surprise when someone here posts otherwise. Which players have shown poor behavior to you? Have other new players shared similar feelings? I'm dedicated to combating this neglect. I'll add the list of new players to my webdash friends list so I can be alerted when they're online and try to go give them a helping hand. I'm assuming your login name is mongoose2? What about the other new players that have been disrespected?
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Post by sabregirl on Dec 28, 2015 15:27:11 GMT
I have to say I appreciate the mention. I'm not sure I would blame culture necessarily, though the low population means there are just plain fewer people around to help out. There aren't always lowbie parties to join.
One thing I have rediscovered on working on a from scratch walkthrough video for HG is how hard it is to start off. Money becomes a big problem after only a few levels and the money given out by quests and mob kills does not cover the cost of simple heal potions (20K per 10 pack). There's also the issue of players assuming the best gear comes from the shop which is nearly always absurdly expensive and not all that good. The best and most useful gear comes from random loot, at almost any level. It's also the best place to get items to sell for cash. But after getting junk for 5 loot spots most players give up.
In any case it'll be helpful for everyone to "get the word out" about how to survive at low levels when you don't have cash. Since a lot of new players won't have parties all the time. If we can get a new player to immortality I think we'll have a higher chance of keeping them around.
-S
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2015 22:25:00 GMT
Every reference to fast veterans/unshouted runs etc. relates almost entirely to endgame content, which IMO is relatively separate from 'newbies' - be honest, how many new players have entered the endgame in the last 12 months? In fact from what I have seen when the few new players actually do get to the endgame they are treated pretty well because a newbie in the endgame is a rare breed (as opposed to the classic 'vet who won't learn').
Problem is the climb from 1-60 is a really long, unenjoyable grind because of the quest XP nerf. IMO that is the single change that cut the number of veterans making new toons significantly, as well as slowing down progress from 1-60, which means that a new player has a much more dull experience because it is both lonely and slow.
If you ask me, restoring quest XP to pre-nerf levels and increasing starting gold to a million or so would go a pretty long way to improving player retention, which is really the issue with 'new players' - not unshouted runs.
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Post by woqued on Dec 28, 2015 23:39:12 GMT
It's an old game. To make it worse the server is but a module in an already hard-to-approach game. The player base got old, and they have other things to do. The Devs got old and they have other things to do. No game has a consistent, big player-base and a healthy community if there are no updates made to the game. There are other dragons to slay out there; whether it be dragons in other games or - metaphorically speaking - real life challenges to overcome.
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Post by mongoose2 on Dec 29, 2015 4:54:05 GMT
Yes player retention is a problem, but not a causal one. It is symptomatic of a common denominator which remains, one that screens out others who are not a part of that common denominator. Once things reach such a critical mass as the one you have now there really is no fixing the problem, because the problem is what is causing your low number of players. That problem is a lack of diversity, and could only be solved by a massive influx of new players to add much needed diversity, and a number of new denominators to the social mix of things. Those new players would then need to be able to compete, and jockey for position equally well with those who have already jockeyed, and attained positions of influence within that societal structure. However, you will never get that. Why? Because in any social system people jockey for position. Once that position is attained jockeying has ceased in regards to this societal structure. Competition has been eliminated. In a healthy social system this never abates. You see this in any good economy as well. Competition is a good thing, not a bad one. This game has no competition, only people who have jockeyed, and attained positions which no one could compete with. No one, unless they have attained equal position through past jockeying for such. Now take a limited societal structure that has a very narrow base, and through years and years of losing diversity you are now left with a common denominator that is not of a positive ilk. What you get at that time is a societal structure that is not about diversity, but conformity. Conformity to the values and moral code of those who have attained, through years of jockeying, and the exodus of diversity the highest level of societal influence. There is no room within such a construct for a diverse population. This greatly limits who will, and will not join, as the common denominator in such a societal structure is a very, very limited one, and people vote with their feet if they don't want to be part of it. The democracy of choice in action.
You can give out all the free gold you want. Restore this, or that. It won't change anything, as those things are not actually the problem. They are simply activities that exist within the same societal structure. There really is no fixing the problem. You have reached a critical mass, and that means that it cannot be fixed. The damage is being done, and will continue to be done until that mass has spent itself. Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2015 5:35:49 GMT
-insert rant about overthrowing the bourgeoisie- So...aren't you supposed to be banned?
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Post by woqued on Dec 29, 2015 5:39:09 GMT
His forum incarnations are endless, there is no stopping him. The damage is being done, and will continue to be done until that mass has spent itself. Sorry.
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Post by mongoose2 on Dec 29, 2015 6:40:30 GMT
Attacking me for whatever reason doesn't change anything. It is rather rude in fact. Also seems like someone trying to derail the thread, and change the subject. Why would I be banned for having an opinion that is in line with this post?
If you want to give a counter argument that would be great, but saying I should be banned? I don't get that.
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