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Post by Joe Knecht on Mar 13, 2005 18:23:19 GMT
Guilds Chat 101 a.k.a. drunk monk ramblings of Joe Knecht!
1. One Guild Master(Leader), no dictators(didnt know tators could have those?). To decide on Guild leader, candidates can fight for it in arena, challenge for lead every month(if need be). 2. Two or three Lieutenants with almost as much power as leader. 3. Guild starts with 1 leader and at least 4 other members. 4. Creation of a Guild Holder(NPC), to start a guild costs lets say 100K, with each members paying some amount dependable upon level and leaders choice, or make a quest for them i.e. bring back to guild 50 bettle bellies. 5. Guilds should be at least race/alignment/class based or some overall idea, theory,(roleplay), example, Blackguard and COT should not be in same guild. 6. Guild should have a battle plan or agenda. Roaming endlessly in sea of roleplay confusion is no fun. Remember not all people will be roleplaying or in guild. So use tells accordingly so as not to step on toes(ruin peeps fun). 7. Rewards given out to members that reach a certain lvl (i.e.) lvl 11 they get boots speed free charge, wonder if DM could help in creation of more roleplay unique items, make them more guild specific? i.e a runestone that sends you to guild house.(Freaky idea heheh) 8. For noobs wanting to join, guild could set a spy to view them in battle, challege them, talk to them, feel them out, make sure they are not expletive deletes. 9. One character per guild, then again if your an international spy playing both sides for gain your welcome to it, but both guilds may find out and you dead sucker. 10. Lead/Liet. decision must be made on roleplay not personal, unless they are real expletive deletes. 11. What will be the DM interaction with guilds? 12. Don't know about you but I see great PvP battles in the cemetary or thieves hideout(so many good spots to pick from)!!! Of course, PvP must be agreed upon by both sides, well staged, planned, with set rules and DM notified(probably for most cases.) A treasure item can be decided upon by both guilds(or single members), given to the winner of the battle. 13. All in All, a lot of work peeps let's get cracking! These are not rules or blueprints, just a post started by some crazy kid in a basement intended to get our creative juices flowing. You hate the idea you like the idea? Tell why? Start typing damnit!
Notice: I said roleplay alot in here. Thoughts/Ideas/Curses?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 13, 2005 20:16:16 GMT
Great post, almost exactly what I had in mind. I plan to create guildhouses, with a few unique items per guild, including some sort of transportation device. As to guild creation, for the formal guilds, there will be some fee in gold - a large one. Because creating a guild house and the related items will take a fair chunk of time, the DM team may also require a server donation to start a FORMAL guild (ie one with a house). I need to talk that over with dms, players, and Rip first though. Also, if you're spending enough time here to join a guild, you should vote for the server on the Vault! Again, nice post! Funky
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Post by archmage on Mar 13, 2005 23:19:55 GMT
I agree with most of what you said, but as for how the guilds are organized and what classes can be in them, I see that as entirely up to the players and guild leaders.
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Post by Joe Knecht on Mar 14, 2005 4:05:55 GMT
I most totally agree it should be left up to the players/guilds! There should be no set way a guild is run/setup internally. But how they react externally to other players/guilds should have some well thought out boundaries and stakes for crossing those terms of endearment.(i.e. PvP Kill)
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Post by Terragen on Mar 21, 2005 19:26:05 GMT
Guilds are going to be key to the long-term future of Higher Ground I am certain. There are enough players of varying skill and knowledge to produce a number of interesting guilds. I myself have made quite a number of allies over the months, but more importantly, I am making enemies!!! Through the combination of my own annoying personality, my moody characters and my sheer unadulterated GENIUS I'm sure we could have some very memorable and exciting adventures, involving guild skirmishes, or guild allegiances, and plenty of underhanded activity for my Justice-bringers to ... er... bring to justice... Anyways keep up the good work and I wish I had some valuable input on this, other than to say SIGN ME UP
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Rock
Neophyte
Posts: 17
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Post by Rock on Mar 24, 2005 17:49:10 GMT
I come from a pretty heavy background of Player vs. Player mods and i think thats exactly what HG needs! Some good ol fashion guild wars! Nothing better than logging in to find out that your guild leader has been slain by a rival faction and you must rally forth a band of guildsman and raid their headquarters!!!! But on a more serious note, Funky if allowed and approved i am a very skilled builder, only minor scripting though, and would love to design a guildhouse. Would save alot of time on the devs part except to link the waypoint and to look over and approve the build.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 24, 2005 19:36:55 GMT
I'll probably have a demo guildhouse up by next update. Once we finalize the reqs, I'll start a new thread for guild requests. You are welcome to design your own guild's house, as long as: 1) you use a standard 1.65 toolset with NO haks installed except CEP 1.5. 2) it is no larger than 4x4 squares in a single area, with no more than 2 placeables per square, and no more than 20 placeables total. Placeables without meshes are the exception, you can have up to one extra of those per square (as long as the total is still under 20). If you don't know what that means, you probably should let me design your guild (or you should look it up). ;D 3) only static placeables, please, I'll be adding the rest. 4) no triggers. not a big deal if youre not a scripter. 5) no creatures/NPCs. 6) please use placeables with animations sparingly (ie 2 or 3 tops).
The above are not open to debate. If your area doesn't conform, I will trash the whole area, so check carefully. FYI, this doesnt save me any time, since I have to go through everything again to check it, it just allows you to have your guild look like you want. If the rules seem draconian, its to cut down on lag, so don't gripe. I will post an email for area submissions once the guild qualification requirements are finalized.
Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 25, 2005 12:00:25 GMT
Here are the guild rules that Syc and I worked up. Please feel free to post comments/criticism.
Guild Rules:
1.) Introduction a. These rules are crafted to be as intuitive as possible. We kept them as brief as possible, but they are still fairly long. This was necessary in order to carefully limit PvP activity to consenting players. b. Guild Members are charged with knowing and obeying these rules. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse for an infraction of these rules.
2.) Guild Formation a. Requirements: i. Group Size: Gather a group of no less then 4 players. ii. Theme: All guilds must have some sort of theme that must be approved by DM Sorceress. Guidelines for these themes are very loose as HG has never been a heavy roleplay server, but SOME basis for the guild must exist. iii. Cost: 400 million gold is required in order to establish a guild. This money is to be turned over to DM Sorceress. iv. Votes: If you have taken the time to form a guild you obviously enjoy Higher Ground, so please ensure that all your members cast a vote for Higher Ground on the Neverwinter Vault, to help us continue to expand our player base. b. Once you have met these requirements, inform DM Sorceress. Once she determines that you have fulfilled all the requirements listed above, construction of your guild headquarters will commence. c. There are no guidelines in place for internal guild structure or rankings. This is done intentionally, as it is your guild; you decide what is required to qualify for membership. You can require certain items, amounts of gold, immortality, whatever you want. This freedom is subject to the following rules: i. Each character may only belong to ONE guild. It will be nigh impossible for a character to obtain a guild token for more than one guild. If you ARE able to infiltrate a guild somehow, you are welcome to do so. ii. Each new member accepted by a guild after formation must vote for Higher Ground on the Neverwinter Vault. We ask that the guilds police this, and we will keep it on an honor system basis.
3.) Consequences of Guild Membership a. You open yourself up to forms of behavior not normally tolerated on Higher Ground, including: i. Stealing of treasure and loot from areas you are clearing by other guilds ii. Stealing of spawns by other guilds in areas you are clearing iii. Hostile interference in battle, designed to throw the outcome of the battle in the monsters favor. This does NOT include targeting spells at players, which amounts to PvP. It DOES include laying traps and casting area of effects spells, so long as they do not affect the intended victim immediately. You may, for instance, block a route of escape with Blade Barriers, but you may not cast them directly under your victim. iv. Any other forms of nastiness HG players can devise, short of full PvP. This includes pickpocketing, which is allowed regardless of the guild status of the victim. We know we have some devious souls here, and expect to see some creative tactics. v. Full PvP, but only if a guild war has been officially declared between your guild and another guild or guilds, per the guidelines for declaring guild wars set out in Rule 4. vi. Do not under any circumstances use tactics like these on non-guild members (except pickpocketing). Punishment will be swift and certain. b. You are able to engage in the same behavior against members of other guilds. c. You get access to a custom guildhouse, with teleportation magic and a replenishing stock of healing potions and teleportation gems.
4.) Guild Warfare and PvP a. Guild Wars are encouraged and are a large part of the reason for the implementation of guilds. That being said, there are some definite guidelines which must be followed to the letter. i. Any characters involved in Guild Wars MUST be above level 30. ii. No lowbie killing will be permitted at any time, and will carry punishments up to and including the disbandment of your guild, so don’t do it. For the purposes of guild warfare, lowbie killing is the killing of anyone under level 30. iii. There must be a roleplay reason to kill any guild member not involved in a guild war at the present time. If they provoke you by engaging in behaviors listed in Rule 3a above, such as loot or spawn stealing, that is sufficient reason, so long as you and they are guild members. If you or they are not guild members, you MAY NOT kill them until you have reported the behavior to a DM and received DM permission to do so. Pickpocketing is the sole exception to this rule. If you catch someone picking your pocket, you may attack them immediately – but you had better be certain! iv. A GUILD MUST PROVIDE A WARNING 24 hours before commencing a war on another guild. This warning must be posted by the head of the guild on the new Guild Notice Board in the Docks. v. Guilds may agree to end a guild war at any time. The head of the guild that declared war must post notice of the cessation of hostilities on the Guild Notice Boards. This notice is effective immediately. vi. A guild must have a reason to declare war on another guild. Any of the provocations listed in Rule 3a are sufficient. This means that if you WANT to go to war with a guild, you only need to provoke them into declaring war on you. If they don’t, you can continue to provoke them until they do, or wait until they provoke you. Please do not ‘invent’ provocations, this system is meant to be consensual to a degree. If a rival guild refuses to declare war on you, and does not provoke your guild members, you may continue to harass their members, but may not attack them directly. vii. All battles must take place in PvP areas. Please keep the full scale battles out of areas which low-level characters frequent, such as the Road to Town and the Beetle Cave. Try to keep the battles to the east of town and other high-level areas, like Manatakloss. viii. In the course of battle throughout the lands of Ascension, please be careful not to endanger people not involved in the battle. ix. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should a guild member attack someone not involved with guilds. There are many players who only want to play and level their characters while doing battle against the many monsters in HG. If you interfere with a non-guild member’s enjoyment of HG, you may be subjected to severe consequences, including disbandment of guilds and in extreme cases, banning. This means that, if a guild member is traveling with other non-guild members, that guild member is essentially off-limits to any type of action that would impact their non-guild companions negatively. Pickpocketing, as always, is allowed.
5.) Mechanics a. There will be a way for guild members to differentiate guild members from the general public. Please pay careful attention to guild designations, since these may save your life, and will help you avoid targeting non-guild members. i. A token will be given to all guild members. When used, this token will tell the player using it if the targeted player is a guild member, and to which guild they belong. ii. These tokens may only be acquired by characters of level 30 or above; this helps prevent lowbies from being subjected to guild warfare. iii. You may not under any circumstance target a player for any of the actions listed in the consequences section above who is not a token-bearing member of a guild (except pickpocketing). iv. If a character not belonging to a guild performs any of the actions listed in Rule 3a, you must report the server rule infraction to a DM at first opportunity and may only kill that character pending approval of the DM staff. Pickpocketing is the sole exception to this rule. If you catch someone picking your pocket, you may attack them immediately – but you had better be certain! v. You may only kill the offender one time. Resurrecting, or even worse, raising dead the character in order to kill them again is seriously frowned on, and will result in actions being taken against you by the DM staff.
6.) Actions not to be taken, even by guild members, under any circumstances a. Unprovoked attacks on players at any time. Guilds must declare war on each other to allow full PvP combat, absent provocation. b. Any hostile actions taken on a player other then those specifically allowed against other guild members by guild members.
7.) What Constitutes Provocation a. We are walking a fine line between PvP and cooperative play here. Situations will arise in which it is unclear whether provocation sufficient to merit an attack or declaration of guild war has occurred. In such cases: i. There is a presumption that provocation is SUFFICIENT, if the allegedly provoking party entered an area occupied by a member or members of the opposing guild or guilds. In other words, if you don’t want to incite a combat or guild war, stay out of areas occupied by members of rival guilds, just as regular non-guild players should stay out of areas occupied by other parties. ii. There is a presumption that the provocation is INSUFFICIENT, if the allegedly provoking party was in an area when the member of the opposing guild claiming they were provoked first entered that area. In other words, you cannot claim provocation by placing yourself conveniently in harm’s way. iii. If there is any doubt, ask a DM to resolve the dispute before engaging in full PvP.
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Rock
Neophyte
Posts: 17
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Post by Rock on Mar 25, 2005 13:39:38 GMT
Funky i got nothing but love for you right now!! You just made my day. Now to find two more people and a kick ass guild theme. Which i have quite a few ideas for. Hmmm and to come up with 400 mil. Time to dust off Rock and do some farming!!
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Post by Joe Knecht on Mar 25, 2005 14:46:34 GMT
The juices have flown! Woom hoo! Wonder if guilds could have a section on the BB, maybe even secret passwords to get into specific guilds post page? Wonder if we could have a community chest inside guild headquarters holding a set amount of items? Where will these guildhouses be placed? The guild token is an added touch, love the idea. Waiting for more posts people, start typing!
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Post by archmage on Mar 25, 2005 17:22:22 GMT
Guildhouses will not be limited to Town, a lot of that will depend on the guild. We are currently considering making the guildhouses work similarly to the Loki's Hall where you port into and out of the guildhouse, using a magic portal of some sort. We haven't reached a firm decision on this yet though.
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Post by Joe Knecht on Mar 25, 2005 22:21:51 GMT
Can the devices used to teleport to guild halls be stolen? Some way to bind them to the characters inventory, to keep the rival rogue from pursing it? or should they be stealable(word?), adding more intrigue and sneaking into other guild halls while they are gone. In each guild hall can be that guild hall's signature item(stone, gem etc..) that all other rival guilds will covet, gotta work out some benefits from stealing this(transfer of guild gold to other factions bank account)other than satisfaction of invading rival factions strongkeep and slipping cow tongues under their pillows. ooo guild bank accounts, that feasible? ooo Did any of this make any sense? tell me so.
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Post by themonk on Mar 26, 2005 1:15:13 GMT
hmm....lets do some numbers....If we get a max of 40 players at one time on the server....and each guild had 8 members....you could only have only 5 guilds with full representation on the server at one time. I suspect that given the high cost of starting a guild at 400 million gp, guilds would need a max number of members prior to establishment, lots of players grabbing as much loot as they can....I can envision 3 at most 4 guilds...but more than likely only 2....because once started...a guild will need as many members as it can get just to protect its turf...and Dominate the landscape.... Maybe a limit to the number of members a guild can have 'active' at one time would allow for a greater proliferation of the number of guilds in existance. A lower starting cost might also help in a greater number of guilds.
Imagine being at war with and you cant get enough of your members on the server. "Boy, we sure did woop the snot out of that Monk Guild....too bad we could only find one of 'em to beat up on...but it sure was nice to listen to theWailing and Lamentations of their women and childen"
But I do love the prospect of this kind of enviroment... even if its only the Jets vs the Sharks.....
Just some thoughs from this foolish old monk
themonk
PS....I didnt see it mentioned...but couldnt server donations get some sort of Special Guild Hall decorations?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 27, 2005 19:26:18 GMT
Themonk, I think your numbers are pretty far off. First off, guilds only require four members to start. This means that there could be as many as 8 with full representation on the sever at present, and 10 when we move up to 40. We also envision future increases to server size, providing we can keep building its popularity. Second, I think you overestimate the difficult of acquiring 400 million gold. I know of at least two players at present who have 300 million on a single character. Given that you need 4 characters to start a guild, 100M each doesn't seem too onerous. The reson it was set high was to prevent frivolous guild creation, and all the extra work it creates for the DM team. We prefer to spend time improving the module, not creating some player's guild-of-the-week. As to neeeding members to protect guild 'turf', I'm not sure where you got this idea. Guilds will have their own halls which are inaccessible to the general public. Beyond that, it'll be difficult to have any sort of 'turf' since guild warfare must yeild to players in an area not associated with a guild. Granted, a guild could stake out an area that they were determined to dominate, but I don't think that fact alone will create the membership inflation you fear. There are a number of players on the server with rivalries, and I'm certain that they will not want to belong to the same guild. Nor do I think two guilds would be enough to seperate all the people who can't stand/dislike/have friendly rivalries with/want to roleplay evil characters with one another. I'd be pretty surprised if it wound up being anything like the 'superbowl' you describe. I also don't want to impose any structure on the guilds beyond that absolutely necessary to protect the enjoyment of non-guilders, so I think imposing a member maximum is a bad idea. All that being said, if we don't see at least a few applications within a week or two, I may move the $ requirement down a bit, but I'm not making any promises. Best, Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 27, 2005 19:48:48 GMT
Im posting a finalized version of the guild rules here, in TWO PARTS, and in a new thread under server info. Any changes to these rules will only be posted under the server info thread.
Guild Rules (Part 1):
1.)Introduction a.These rules are crafted to be as intuitive as possible. We kept them as brief as possible, but they are still fairly long. This was necessary in order to carefully limit PvP activity to consenting players. b.Guild Members are charged with knowing and obeying these rules. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse for an infraction of these rules. c.Pickpocketing is generally allowed on this server regardless of guild status, and is mentioned frequently in these rules. The rules governing pickpocketing are set out in the general server rules. Any mention here is merely an attempt to clarify those rules with respect to guild activities.
2.)Guild Formation a.Requirements: i.Group Size: Gather a group of no less then 4 players. ii.Theme: All guilds must have some sort of theme that must be approved by DM Sorceress. Guidelines for these themes are very loose as HG has never been a heavy roleplay server, but SOME basis for the guild must exist. iii.Cost: 400 million gold is required in order to establish a guild. This money is to be turned over to DM Sorceress. iv.Votes: If you have taken the time to form a guild you obviously enjoy Higher Ground, so please ensure that all your members cast a vote for Higher Ground on the Neverwinter Vault, to help us continue to expand our player base. b.Once you have met these requirements, inform DM Sorceress. Once she determines that you have fulfilled all the requirements listed above, construction of your guild headquarters will commence. c.There are no guidelines in place for internal guild structure or rankings. This is done intentionally, as it is your guild; you decide what is required to qualify for membership. You can require certain items, amounts of gold, immortality, whatever you want. This freedom is subject to the following rules: i.Each character may only belong to ONE guild. It will be nigh impossible for a character to obtain a guild token for more than one guild. If your character IS able to infiltrate a guild somehow, you are welcome to do so. ii.Each new member accepted by a guild after formation must vote for Higher Ground on the Neverwinter Vault. We ask that the guilds police this, and we will keep it on an honor system basis. iii.Each Guild must appoint one or more persons as the head of the guild, for the purposes of Declarations of War (covered under Rule 4 below). The names of these guild heads will be posted on a Guild List sign next to the Guild Notice Board in the Docks. This designation has no other significance within the guild, unless the guild wants it to.
3.)Consequences of Guild Membership a.You open yourself up to forms of behavior not normally tolerated on Higher Ground, including: i.Stealing of loot from areas you are clearing by other guilds ii.Stealing of spawns by other guilds in areas you are clearing iii.Hostile interference in battle, designed to throw the outcome of the battle in the monsters favor. This does NOT include targeting spells at players, which amounts to PvP. It DOES include laying traps and casting area of effects spells, so long as they do not affect the intended victim immediately. You may, for instance, block a route of escape with Blade Barriers, but you may not cast them directly under your victim. The same goes for non-damaging spells such as Grease and Mind Fog. You can cast these spells where they will cause difficulty for your victim, but not in a place where they will be immediately effected by them. Even nondamaging spells like Bigby’s Interposing Hand may not be cast directly on your victim, unless you are at war with their guild (this counts as full PvP). iv.Any other forms of nastiness HG players can devise, short of full PvP. This includes pickpocketing, which is allowed regardless of the guild status of the victim. We know we have some devious souls here, and expect to see some creative tactics. v.Full PvP, but only if a guild war has been officially declared between your guild and another guild or guilds, per the guidelines for declaring guild wars set out in Rule 4. vi.Do not under any circumstances use tactics like these on non-guild members (except pickpocketing). Punishment will be swift and certain. b.You are able to engage in the same behavior against members of other guilds. c.You get access to a custom guildhouse, with teleportation magic and a replenishing stock of healing potions and teleportation gems.
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