Limbo Arena

[dopplegang]

I do realize this would take a lotta zots, but it would go a phenomenally long way to improving my interest in Limbo and I wager a great many other peoples, if I knew what the mobs looked like, and how they kill me/how i can kill them.  I suggest that an option for spawning limbo mobs in the hells arena be added so people can learn about them.

[Deleted]

Why not just start running it? Then if all you do is a spawn or two, you can learn that way. Then the investment of dots is mitigated and you’d actually earn canopics. Keep party size at 7 or less and the spawn sizes won’t jack up significantly on you.

[dopplegang]

Exhibit A:

wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Bestiary:_Limbo

For posterity sake, if for no other reason, the arena should have a Limbo version, on top of the real need now and in the future as well for people to learn about the mobs in a way that can be logged and examined. If I am not mistaken the most commonly cited reason for not having interest in the place is still "lack of information", although lack of gear and lack of Abyss/Hell Cycles is starting to catch up to that for many people. That is not because people know what to do there, that is simply because people are not concerned that they don't know because they plan to learn. However, wasting hours gathering keys and wasting days talking reluctant people into joining me with the intent to waste a key and log out without successfully completing a run is not high on my list of things to do. I value my time and that is to high a price for modest desert loot.

And the Bestiary should not be a complete and total waste of webspace. I will be updating it, but the amount of information I have is minimal, as already stated. But at least it will be something more than a blank page. Anyone who has notes on what to use on what mob name will be helpful, PM me.

[woqued]

While Limbo arena seems like a fine call to execute at this point and being a handy yet not game-breaking in any way (so a nobrainer if time investment to make it happen is small) citing lack of information as a reason not to go seems like complete bs after Poliwhirls guide and what is on wiki on limbo page (not bestiary). The information to succeed is there, whether people choose to use it or not.

[Deleted]

If it needs specifics, it's on the two places Woqued mentioned which is on the google doc you shared with me. The answer for anything I didn't mention to you literally is "bash it".

[tega091]

Just going to say one a couple things here. 1. There is more than enough information out there to be acquired... Every p1 mob is on the wiki or in poli's guide. 2. I strongly and utterly disagree because part of dungeon and drsgons is exploring and learning and an arena doesnt simulate real nwn. 3. Others have gathered the information the way it was intended to be gathered, asking for shortcuts is literally something that is not common in this mod. 4. There needs to be some risk/reward system in the end game... 5. Just enter the area and learn as you! A lot of the techniques used by limbo parties would never be helped by an area... the most importsnt part of limbo is controlling a spawn. An area wont teach you how to do so.

[chirality]

if arena was the answer to a detailed and accurate wiki, how come abyss one still is full of blank spots and wrong information? and the runs are almost 10 yrs old and added to arena since 2 yrs

just saying...
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now derail time:

i dunno, honestly burning a mindstill to "go check out" limbo with some casual PUG and "learn" a couple spawns for zero gain and what will prolly be a very quick wipe/give up doesn't really come off as sounding friendly and encouraging. actually some of this feedback comes off sounding a little jaded and off-putting. i mean there's some times that it's better to not look like the rich vet admonishing wut-r-u-casuls to git gud, even if that's the answer.

when it comes to "this area too mysterious, don't know what to do there, too difficult/time-consuming to learn, interest is stifled cuz activity is stifled, negative feedback loop", nothing new there, abyss literally has been in the same phase of public perception for almost a decade (too hard, not enough information, can't learn, can't get a group, not welcoming for casuals, rip), and with limbo we saw other players go thru this exact same complaint->response process a couple years ago when it was ppl giving same reasons for why limbo wasn't visited and lil bit of salt or disgruntlement was seen/heard when ppl were told "just go play there and learn and look we already did the information-gathering work for you", but hey some ppl persevered and look where they are now, rolling around with XR subs and gear.

aside from loot or "reward" concerns inherent to "messing around in limbo to learn" (thanks to the extremely bad press it got for years, ppl seemed convinced that "it's a waste of time to go play around in limbo and learn a couple spawns for desert loot"), let's be realistic: it's not like you have to burn 1 key to attune your toon to visit any time you want, like hells or abyss, this is "you have to farm DB->thids cycle every time for a 1-use consumed opener". then consider that an entire micro-economy sprung up centered around that key...

i would also point out that no one ever said limbo was supposed to be something aimed for or easily-accessible to casual players, although telling anyone that XYZ part of this game is not newbie-friendly or casual-friendly is usually met with a good bit of reasonable eye-rolling/frustration from new/casual players, and no surprise, that pretty much sums up forum/ingame experience for most people that aren't either old vets or dedicated box army nerds.

[Deleted]

The resources mentioned by Woqued really are quite comprehensive. Conversations have also been had on best investment of canopics, how to control spawn sizes, ideal party compositions, duties for each class, etc. The very core information is all there, and shared, and it’s at a point where you now take that, go and do, and if specific questions arise from those experiences then further information would be willingly offered with hard knowledge now attained.

I don’t think it’s mysterious, or unclear, between the references listed. I feel like those are very accurate portrayals of the run and now it really is a matter of the information being leveraged. That isn’t troll, toxic, jaded, or holier than thou but just apart of the game.

It behooves anyone currently doing Limbo or previously having done it to share information as this brings more canopics into the market and more opportunities for trading. The information exists, extra information has been passed along and shared, it really boils down to whether or not the party can be assembled to leverage that information or not now versus an actual glut existing.

$0.02

[tega091]

So as far as limbo goes, there are multiple other things that need to taken into consideration when running it. Control the spawn is probably at the top if not the top in importance. The other priorities depend on who you are and what you are playing. The 1 thing that everyone need to do though is CONTROL THE SPAWN(everyone will have a roll in this whether is it the druid storm towering in p1 or pesting in p2. The sorc BB9 aliens/thalassas, rebuking rebukables, casting hold monster on paralysis vuln targets, antipathing nasties(rocs in 1) gusting clouds, etc etc. The tanks taking out priority targets. The bard cursing, PPing heals from monsters.) When new to limbo EVERYONE should use a bbod rod if you are uncomfortable with monsters(hell even experienced players will do it to make it safer!) The imms that are needed are in poli's limbo guide. But here i will cover the ones that are recommended in p1(will just be a quick list off of things to be aware of) start there and by the time you get to p2 you will know 90% of the mobs!). Weird/disint(aliens{your sorc should be mording to drop SR/removing spellmantle and grabbing these b4 doing anything}), implosion(confessors), PWK(chaosweavers{note this is honestly not needed if you can maintain above ~1600hp which temp hp does count towards as THESE SHOULD BE KILLED FIRST IN EVERY PULL THEY ARE IN ANYWAYS!!!!!!!!!!), daze(phasms), electric imm of some sort preferably 100% min 75%(stormwardens have ~1.2-1.5k aura around them that strike party members in range every round)
So things to note about mobs, honestly the scariest monsters in p1 and most of the people who have farmed this will agree that it is the archers!! The feral elfs do called shot. All archers inflict massive fire on hit as well as have ubsurd ab(mid 130s!) Your druid should be storm towering them asap(in the off chance you can't fit all in 2 storm towers have 1 designated person to take out the one/s that are not in a tower{note this doesn't mean your druid can afford to be lazy and not tower at all as that will result in a lot of deaths}). Chaosweavers cast polar ray which will stoned you and there are very very very few items that have polar ray imm the item also, note even a tank can roll a 1 and getting stoned will result in death. Chaosweavers die in literally 1 hit after their buffs are stripped, primalists stone and can chain bombardments back to back to back which may not result in tank but easier to just kill them as a high priority anyways as they have about 2k health and can be crit easily for low to mid 1000 and have low ac. Stormwardens(this is a high priority target as they have lightning aura and cast ice storm which will pierce spell level immunity{ice storm will still do damage to tanks as it doesn't have a save and therefore can't be avoided via improved evasion/evasion and note it does physical damage and it is impossible to get over 100% physical imms in limbo.}). Confessors(they die super easy as they are crit vuln targets.) Note basically kills casters first. Kill critable targets next. Then kill crit imm targets(amorphions, kaorti, hagnemnons, kektar{these do disint so you may want to kill them b4 elf fodder}.)

Here is a just a quick list for p1 that will literally get you started. Not trying to be disdainful or mordacious but the only way you will understand the run is if you do it and learn the pulls as they come. Yes one thing that makes limbo semi challenging(but yet always interesting!) is that the spawns are not set you will never get the same spawn @ X spot during X map like you do in the hells but understanding what i listed above will allow you to dissect the pulls as they come and whittle them down to nothing. Don't let the challenge discourage you and don't let potential failure stop you from trying. Albert Einstein once said "You never fail until you stop trying." That applies for limbo too.

Note. I had a video posted of the runs a while back but took it down due to lack of interest/the only feed back coming from someone who literally trolled the post. I have tried to help in many ways in the past, now that being said if you true would benefit from a video I can do it again.

[buddhamind]

Really solid info from tega091 there, I will add that Chaos Rocs cannot be hit by melee weapons, so you need archers or casters to take them out. BFMs can take them down pretty quickly.

(Edit) Oh and I agree that all the info is there if you look for it. If you feel you are ready for limbo (and don't already have a regular group that you run with) then ask for a spot in one of the established parties. Keep in mind you need the P1 tag before you can do P2 though.

[Deleted]

Chaos Rocs can be hit by melee if you have invisibility purge up on the Roc.

[buddhamind]

Nov 4, 2018 14:58:08 GMT chirality said:

i would also point out that no one ever said limbo was supposed to be something aimed for or easily-accessible to casual players, although telling anyone that XYZ part of this game is not newbie-friendly or casual-friendly is usually met with a good bit of reasonable eye-rolling/frustration from new/casual players, and no surprise, that pretty much sums up forum/ingame experience for most people that aren't either old vets or dedicated box army nerds.

It's not that hard, though. Most of the challenge is being prepared for the surprise "gotchas" and all the info on those has been published at this point. The remaining part of the challenge is finding other players with the right classes who have also prepared for the run.

[buddhamind]

Nov 5, 2018 4:03:50 GMT @xprepared said:

Chaos Rocs can be hit by melee if you have invisibility purge up on the Roc.

Didn't know that, thanks for the info. Also that's kind of weird that invisibility purge would work that way.

[Deleted]

It isn't weird, it drops conceal, all forms, the Rocs have 100% melee conceal, if you purge some of that, would make sense.

[tega091]

Pendant of the seer invis purge + 127 conceal puts the chaos rocs at 94% conceal(pure ranger conceal + 127 listen 86), also note that chaos rocs can be Maggoted, or in bad situation mind fog + antipathy.