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Post by nabuch on Nov 15, 2018 20:27:34 GMT
Hello,
i have four questions please
1.
My build now is 73 lv (Negatai 1cleric/9wizard/63 PM) Eater of souls 2008 build from forum with Paragon feats:
Spell Penetration Necromancy Illusion Transmutation
+2? undecided feats from 73 to 80 lv before me (what they should be?)
(i have no others spell schools feats at all)
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2.
I want to reincarnate in to this: (same build 1/9/70)
Paragon Feats:
Spell Penetration Necromancy Abjuration Transmutation
What should be last feat pick at 78 lv?
I can choose from this:
Paragon Spell Focus Illusions, Paragon Spell Knowledge Abjuration, Paragon Spell Knowledge Necromancy
Or any other Paragon wizard feat to take? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.
Which one will be better choice to play?
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4.
All PM builds here are from 2008-2010 no paragons at all
Do anyone know any better Negatai PM build than above to these days and can you post it here from 1 to 80 progres? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope it is understandable what I want to deal with
THX!
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Post by desocupado on Nov 16, 2018 1:33:15 GMT
Why transmutation over illusion? (honest question - is it only due Mass Haste?) - Epic Transmutation spell is completely out of flavor for a long time (paragon levels). I wouldn't consider that use for a Wizard Pm (due lacking spontaneous casting). Either ESF Divination (to pierce monster's resistance to PWK in abyss and a handy epic) or more abjuration focuses are better choices.
1 - both necro and illusion PSK are adequate options. I personally enjoy illusion more as a pm (since it provides a useful kd)
2 - Assuming both the epic and paragon abjuration spells get enough CL to be relevant - it would be the most useful option. (test it in the chamber) Otherwise make as above.
3 - Hard to say. I think something with Drow noble would fare better if you are going to splash. And even tough you can put armor into a pm, there's little point in doing so, unless you are spamming low range spells. (good robes net +1 DC or SP, and your stats and low discipline make melee pointless, even if you don't get damaged a lot)
4 - Negatai isn't really a good subrace - I would make a negatai sorcerer while acquiring a better subrace for that said sorcerer.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 4:14:34 GMT
Genie is what you really want if you’re doing anything touching a wizard.
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Post by chainlink on Nov 16, 2018 8:05:34 GMT
Most PM builds these days (not that you see a lot of them) tend to either be pure or more likely the loot lich type with a rogue splash, whilst this option is slightly more painful to play (due to gear swapping to max disable trap causing spell slot issues) it has way more flexibility from a party point of view as an opener and searcher.
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Post by Paradoom on Nov 16, 2018 16:56:44 GMT
Where´s the Divination focus for PWK?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2018 10:32:08 GMT
With PWK as a Necro spell for PM you no longer need Divination, and barring Divination doesn’t inhibit PWK use for PM.
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Post by chirality on Nov 17, 2018 19:02:25 GMT
i'm sure he meant it for purpose of penetrating paragon immunity (like deso also mentioned above).
either way, i wouldn't spend feats for that unless actively running abyss and lacking a tia staff+gsf augged item to swap on when needed.
although who knows if finding one is easy nowadays, i think i saw someone seeking several of them lately in bazaar and offering quite a premium in return.
that said, i'd definitely go contingency over wall as far as epics go. abj is even better, and trans should be removed entirely imo, but reinc @l73 isn't ideal. don't really understand why you're going for psf trans on your proposed reinc build, unless you really are set on psk for 2 walls and the mantle, but for now, i'd stick with what you have and for L75 and 78 feats i'd just pick whichever 2 of those 3 PSKs you think you'd get the most mileage out of. anyway you're best served trying them out and testing them to see what works best for your usual parties/groups/runs/playstyle before reinc. i'd go trans and illus, last pick for me would be psk nec, 2x dom was pretty sick once, not so much anymore; and i never really found the paragon spell to be very useful or exciting, but you might really like it. then reinc at 78-80 range, drop psf trans for abj, and again just pick your 2 favorite PSK of nec/illus/abj for L75/78 feats.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2018 19:39:03 GMT
Is enchantment viable for PM? Does rebuke get nurfed at all? I checked the wiki and it doesn’t look like it but I have zero experience with PMs. I feel like if rebuke is viable, illusion, Necro, and enchant could be pretty fantastic actually.
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Post by simpetar on Nov 18, 2018 9:37:11 GMT
Is enchantment viable for PM? No, in fact enchantment is a good candidate to be barred. Rebuke (or any other enchantment spell) on PM will not have high enough CL and SP for relevant enemies. The balor summoned by epic is too weak for endgame. Cascade is underwhelming as well; if you desperately need psionic damage, 1 maximized vortex of teeth will do better. PWK is a special case; it counts as necro for PMs, but you still need div foci to pierce abyss mobs, up to ESF for elites. GSF aug / Ely shield + draught can have the job done, but there are merits to taking ESF div manually: 1. you will never have to worry about draughts or switching gear in abyss 2. Contingency is handy, especially if your autocaster ends with extended GV and 3. you get stronger Assay Resistance (talking Limbo, you sometimes need it even as PM) and stronger C/C for the occasional touch attacks you do (Ghoul Touch, Deathless Master Touch)
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Post by woqued on Nov 18, 2018 15:26:19 GMT
I actually like the idea of PM having trans for mass haste for the packs where there are low instakillables ./ savedropping is less relevant ./ you just want the run to progress faster and tank damage is the key. Also applies to boss fights. Whether that's the prime build or not I've no clue. Would require going to ESF and then using a draught or then going all the way to LSF (starts to get expensive).
On the epic note, Wall is quite irrelevant let's be real unless walls hp would scale with levels to "buy time" in some scenarios, or to just block ranged mobs/casters out of los and run away from them (again, unnecessary niche stuff that's only valid for slow/small/weak groups with some ingenuity). Even then mostly not worth using that time to cast. Locking the caster/party inside in such a way that you need to spend even more time to get out and breaking the wall in the process is such a huge downside to it that it's hard to make up for it.
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Post by desocupado on Nov 18, 2018 19:58:51 GMT
I actually like the idea of PM having trans for mass haste for the packs where there are low instakillables . I tried for some time something like: It really doubles as a poor bard between curse song and mass haste (Epic spell destruction should give it an edge on DPS due concealment drop) But losing that sweet +2 DC from specialization and requiring the abo staff is quite sad.
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Post by drunkenboastor on Nov 18, 2018 21:28:34 GMT
For a Pale Master I would suggest the following for paragon feats: 63 - PSK Necromancy - Only need ESF Necromancy and specialist to qualify for PSK. For specializing, ban Enchantment and Evocation. - PSK = PSF for spell's DC and effects. 66 - Paragon Spell Penetration 69 - PSF Abjuration 72 - PSK Abjuration - Abjuration is useful for buff spells like Mage Armor and Resist Elements, but the main reason to take it is for the epic spell Mass Spell Destruction for debuffing. A lot of instant kill targets for Pale Masters start with buffs that need to be removed. - Pale Masters do well in Elysium and Aboleths, the Paragon Spell is very effective there. 75 - PSF Illusion or Paragon Adaptivity 1 78 - PSK Illusion or Paragon Adaptivity 2 - The Illusion spells that I tend to use most on a Pale Master are Vortex of Teeth, Weird and Greater Shadow Conjuration: Web. - The reason I consider Adaptivity feats as an option is because it can help DC of all spells, 1 layer of pens is -1 dc, 4 is -2, 7 is -3. The vast majority of spells I use when playing a Pale Master are necromancy, so I find it helps to have maximum DC for those spells.
I would strongly suggest taking ESF Divination for Abyss, while augments and draughts do work, other players will steal your kills while you are drinking draughts. After getting 5 Abyss wins, I would suggest swapping Divination to Legendary Transmutation for Mass Haste spell.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 1:35:35 GMT
Personally, now that I have learned a lot more. I’d say skip Divination. The likelihood you’ll need to pop draughts is low because your party Demi count is bound to be low. Use a GSF div aug, pop a draught or two a run, if that, and focus efforts on the transmutation.
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