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Post by hfb on Jul 12, 2005 12:29:12 GMT
Wow, the subraces look really cool. Time to weave some histories and crunch some (more) numbers. The possibilities yet again abound. I am really not sure which is better the character building in my head or at the keyboard, but without the Mod and your efforts... Thanks for looking at my suggestions. Good to know I am of some use even after some abortive attempts. You seem to have plenty of material with which to work, but please let me (us) know if you would like more. (I have a list of possibilities but only entered the ones I thought I would play in a relatively timely fashion.) With respect and gratitude, The Dancer (Just for the record, my character "Dancing Delver" is on her way to becoming a rather wacky Harper Scout (Rngr 25, Mnk 10, HS 5). Just so you know that there is someone out there interested in checking it out (and 9 attacks/rnd with ranger rapiers rather than monk body parts or kamas ).)
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Post by light on Jul 12, 2005 12:49:53 GMT
Hello there! Pleasure to meet you all. I'm fairly (very) new here, but just wanted to say how much I am enjoying all the magnificent changes and additions you've made to PoA, even though I'm only 18th level. I'm sure I have much more to look forward to! But enough about me. Taking what FunkySwerve said as one of his points, "The goal is too keep it fresh and interesting, not get tied up worrying about whether x subrace gives too many advantages over the non-subrace version", I would not mind seeing some more extreme stats/abilities on the subraces. While I understand the need for balance, I don't honestly think adding +1 AC, or that +3 to poison saves will entice people to say "Oh I was waiting to make my monk halfling, but now I will!" I think, even if you had to have less subraces, focusing on making them interesting or very worthwhile would keep it alot more fun. One idea I had was: Deep Digger (Halfling) +8 str -2wis -6cha (Seems rediculous I know, hear me out hehe) ----- Having been the labor class of halflings for countless generations, Deep Diggers were forced to dig the homes for the halfling communities, burrowing into rock walls and deep into clay and dirt with their bare hands. Having little contact with others through long weeks of digging, their social skills declined, and were among the ugliest of the halflings. Cave-ins, rock slides, and a constant bombardment of debris left the Diggers disfigured and often were the outcasts of their communities. However, because of their constant physical exertion, they have become the strongest of the halflings, able to accomplish incredible tasks, unheard of by halflings before this time. ------- Having a potential for 4 more str than Orcs, would open the ability for halflings to be used in alot of strength builds as a fighter/monk. But I don't think it would overpower them, because take the monk for example. I would say few people make a halfling monk because of that 2d6 lvl 20 fist, as opposed to 1d20 for an Orc. Add the +2 damage of the 24 strength to the 2d6, and you're still at an average of 14 (2d6+7) damage a hit, as opposed to the orcs 15.5 (1d20 +5), and it's not overpowering for the fighter because still no large weapons. Might even see a shifter thrown in there or two. Doesn't seem overpowered to me unless you really want to accept that the little guys are intended to be weaklings The main drawback of course is that it's a fairly large variatian from the non-subrace halfling. An extreme example I know, probably good reasons why you don't want to do it, but to me, and this is just my opinion of course, the ones with different shapes or a real distinct advantage in some area, would be much more enjoyable and entertaining than a dozen variations of a "+2 appraise Salesman Sam the Hobbit" subrace. Quality over quantity I always say Thanks again for doing such a fantastic job on this world, hope to see you out there sometime!
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Post by Joe Knecht on Jul 12, 2005 13:12:55 GMT
barbarians are to dumb to find "secrets" hehe
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Post by Joe Knecht on Jul 12, 2005 13:18:36 GMT
ahhh to much math people to much, stop crunching numbers
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 13, 2005 18:30:08 GMT
Glad I could oblige, and thanks for watching out for bugs! For future reference, if the subrace board says a subrace gets a bonus, and your character of that subrace actually geyts that bonus, it is not an oversight or mistake, they are entered completely seperately. On the other hand, if any of those abilities have problems or just don't work, I need to hear about it. I just discovered, for instance, that patch 1.66 removed the natural ac field from bics, so AC bonuses won't work and will be getting removed shortly.
Best, Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 13, 2005 18:43:30 GMT
The max bonus for standard subrace stats will be +2 or so, and +8 str halflings is just rediculous, sorry. Secret subraces, on the other hand, will be a little less restricted. Don't ask me, you have to find them yourselves, or they wouldn't be a secret...and don't bother to try doing it through character creation, the subrace names are coded. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 13, 2005 18:49:44 GMT
Sorrey, I should clarify that last, I just realized. The max bonus of +2 doesnt include bonuses used to overcome racial weaknesses, so a +4 str halfling wouldn't be out of the question. If you look at the subraces though, you will notice that, somewhat conversely, if a subrace adds to its race's strong stat, it does so at a penalty. For instance, a dwarf that gets a +1 to Con (on top of the dwarf bonus) takes a -2 hit to another stat. Thats to compensate for the added gain of being able to access feats sooner, and often without having to use a feat to do so in many cases. Also, try to avoid too much CHR bashing on builds, that tends to add to imbalances. Funky
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Post by light on Jul 13, 2005 23:52:17 GMT
Yeah, that was pretty crazy. That's what happens when the server goes down though, the brain fails to function normally and I start blabbering on about +32 str halflings wieldling giant banannas. I guess I just didn't think it'd be that crazy since they can't use large weapons anyways, would essentially be = to a normal sized race with the str bonus. So, realistically, before I write up another subrace history, what do you think about a halfling subrace that's of a more militant society who starts out with the martial or exotic weapons feat and +2 str? Would allow for some 15xx/5wm race builds to get the +16 bab, without having to stick with the cruddy simple weapons like bards get. And don't hesitate to say "No, shutup", better to get put in my place now than have you waste time reading more rediculous suggestions
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 14, 2005 3:58:04 GMT
1) Stat bonuses and penalties must add up to 0 2) BAB is only affected by class
Funky
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Post by Joe Knecht on Jul 14, 2005 7:25:48 GMT
Think this is right place for subrace screwups or screwup players creating subraces... Tried to create a Svirfneblin,(having done so before the crash and reset to backup, that character(Wombat Hoodoo) retained all subracial bonuses) this time the stas didnt show up and I was not asked to restart my character for those to come into affect, I tried 5 times all with same response. Here is where i screwed up: 1st attempt made him got so excited I talked to captain right away, may have missed my chance, didnt read log, so I poisoned that sucker, 2nd attempt created same exact character to the T, this time I go straight past the captain to the docks like I already had this character in creation, guess it found the old build I poisoned and replanted that info with new one,, so if ya kill dont use same name to remake. 3rd attempt misspelled Svirfneblin, 4th attempt double checked the boards, character sheet and my brain, before creation and still didnt ask me to restart character so no subrace bonuses, if someone could try creation of said Svirfneblin be most appreciative.
Login name Flecky888
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 14, 2005 9:09:37 GMT
You need to check the new boards when I run updates, the subrace names were changed. I just checked the subrace and it works fine. The full subrace name is [Gnome - Svirfneblin], minus the brackets. Best, Funky
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Post by Joe Knecht on Jul 14, 2005 15:05:58 GMT
Thanks Funk, thats why I always put disclaimers of stupidity on my posts, everything kinda blurs together at 3 in the morning when your trying to find another vein to push drug HG into.....
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Post by light on Jul 15, 2005 2:04:41 GMT
Hey Funky, I wasn't probably clear enough with that last post. For a halfling to take 5 levels of weaponmaster pre-20, he would have to use every single feat (non-fighter), to meet the pre-reqs. This doesn't leave room to take a feat like martial or exotic weapons. I was just looking at it from like what you said earlier when you said "..If I only had one more feat I could do this..." There are just some halfling classes I'd like to throw weaponmaster onto, but hate sticking with those simple weapons, so then I'm stuck with multiclassing (xp penalty makes me cry) or giving up the 16 bab. I didn't provide a stat penalty to the +str because I was just bascially asking if the general concept is even feasible of adding a fairly important feat like those, I'd get alot more specific in my actual subrace suggestion if you said yes, but don't worry bout it. I'm sure badlanders already have given you enough halfling suggestions though, so I'll be happy however the cookie crumbles hehe.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 18, 2005 16:37:56 GMT
Adding a feat like that is doable, light, I don't have a huge problem with it, but I may wind up assigning a stat penalty to keep thinks in balance with other subraces. Funky
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Post by TheS0S on Jul 19, 2005 21:22:06 GMT
Tries to make a Wood Elf paladin a while ago. Did everything right, but. . . it still didn't work. Retried it over and over, using just "Wood Elf" and "Elf - Wood Elf" and I finally discovered the problem.
Wings.
You can't make Wood Elves with wings, apparently. o______O;;; Wonder if this applies to the rest. Ho-hum. . . she looked prettier with wings.
I'd like to second Dancer's call for the Tiefling.
And. . . I'm not going to post a history, but. . .
Human - Yuan-Ti (Can you make it so it activates for evil only?) (I'll assume this is a half-breed Yuan-Ti geared toward becoming a Sorcerer) +2 Cha +1 Int +1 Dex -3 Wis -1 Str
And. . . some amount of spell resist? They have spell resist. I don't know. Numbers aren't my thing. Change them completely, I just want to see Yuan-Ti. Someone else with number sense post about them. D:
Half-Elf - Dryad (Female and Good/Neutrals only) +4 Cha -2 Str -2 Con
If you're not going to give spells. . . could you detect subraced and give non transferable items? Like. . . give the Dryad a little plant sprig that lets her cast the signature charm spell three times a day? Or let's a Yuan-Ti summon a snake?
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