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Post by FunkySwerve on May 28, 2020 16:08:36 GMT
I don't think the change would tip the scales much frankly in the current module; but you never know. +3 ac on a frontline sword/board (or stick & shield tank cleric) could be the make or break to enable this type of character to exist again - those AC points between 130 and 142 mean a great deal in endgame - and this would also enable that wild medium + tower shield combination to enter the fray. This is assuming of course that there is a reason to play a sword&board character in the first place over a 2h smash & basher. The test mod I'm putting together is using +4, at least on 7 and 8 armors, to 11 and 12. The interesting thing will be to see how it interacts with the current plugin-based dexterity cap. I'm hoping the cap is fixed and not a formula; otherwise there will be no point to the edit (at least not with a plugin edit I'm ill-equipped to make). Funky
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Post by simpetar on May 28, 2020 18:43:17 GMT
You mean 11 and 12 BAC on the armours themselves, or dex cap? If it is the latter, that would surpass what medium armours now allow, which is +10. To give you an idea, even builds with the lowest starting dex of 6 (pariahs) will reach buffed dex of 28 by the time they are lvl 80, making medium armours a legit choice for them.
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Post by woqued on May 28, 2020 19:55:00 GMT
I don't think the change would tip the scales much frankly in the current module; but you never know. +3 ac on a frontline sword/board (or stick & shield tank cleric) could be the make or break to enable this type of character to exist again - those AC points between 130 and 142 mean a great deal in endgame - and this would also enable that wild medium + tower shield combination to enter the fray. This is assuming of course that there is a reason to play a sword&board character in the first place over a 2h smash & basher. The test mod I'm putting together is using +4, at least on 7 and 8 armors, to 11 and 12. The interesting thing will be to see how it interacts with the current plugin-based dexterity cap. I'm hoping the cap is fixed and not a formula; otherwise there will be no point to the edit (at least not with a plugin edit I'm ill-equipped to make). Funky I'm assuming base AC upgrade? I didn't know that was possible, but interesting. Tower Shields might get owned by that test though, as their max dex modifier would go to 0 potentially -1 with this, not sure how that plays nicely but I suppose you'll find out.
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Post by FunkySwerve on May 29, 2020 0:40:15 GMT
Yes, base ac. Tower shields, and shields in general, are an entirely different, but related problem. The base ac edit is fairly trivial for armor. Not sure for shields. We can actually set it using toolset script, thanks to a plugin, instead of editing the 2da files.
We're assuming dex 40 without much trouble by 80, for a mod of 15. Ideally I would like to allow most of that, which is why we went +4. If, however, the dex cap plugin is using a formula to calculate the cap instead of input numbers, then the dex cap will drop when bac rises, and I won't be able to do anything without editing the plugin (which I would have to seek help doing, or learn, and that's a pretty steep curve given my limited time).
Funky
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 3:05:43 GMT
I would suggest just changing the DEX caps if possible, instead of the base AC. A possible way to change it up could be by adding +5 to the DEX caps of Medium and Heavy Armor, so the totals become: Light - 22 (min +19 DEX mod to cap AC) Medium - 19 (min +14 DEX mod to cap AC) Heavy - 16 (min +8 DEX mod to cap AC)
Additionally you can pair this with an increase in Tower Shield Dex Cap to 15 minus BAC (instead of the current 11 minus BAC), or something along those lines.
This would make 'standard 14 DEX' toons optimised in Medium (instead of Light), and 'low 6-8 DEX' toons optimised in Heavy Armor, with mid-tier DEX toons having a choice between Tower and Large shields with a small AC trade as well. It would also reduce the AC gap between each step making it a smoother transition of "trade a bit of AC for a bit of increased immunities".
The numbers may need to be tweaked a bit, it would have to be simulated across a couple of different builds to see how they turn out and whether it's too high or too low. Bear in mind that if you make the numbers too low, the armors won't be picked up by anyone but armored Clerics will enjoy the free boost.
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Post by simpetar on May 29, 2020 4:45:09 GMT
Yes, base ac. Tower shields, and shields in general, are an entirely different, but related problem. The base ac edit is fairly trivial for armor. Not sure for shields. We can actually set it using toolset script, thanks to a plugin, instead of editing the 2da files. We're assuming dex 40 without much trouble by 80, for a mod of 15. Ideally I would like to allow most of that, which is why we went +4. If, however, the dex cap plugin is using a formula to calculate the cap instead of input numbers, then the dex cap will drop when bac rises, and I won't be able to do anything without editing the plugin (which I would have to seek help doing, or learn, and that's a pretty steep curve given my limited time). Funky This looks exciting, not gonna lie. However, changing BAC will open another set of issues to be addressed sooner or later and it seems like lot more work / decisions to be made. To name a few: 1. What happens to mechanics that are directly or indirectly tied to BAC? For instance PF and maleb checks, discipline checks for slagging, venom / blight damage reduction etc. +4 will make quite a difference, mostly for the better but sometimes for the worse. 2. What happens to other armours? BAC progression is now linear from 0 (robes) to 8 (full plate). Is there gonna be a big gap between splints (6) and then half plates (11)? Are they all receiving similar buff, or will BAC be spaced up evenly? 3. What happens to % Insurmountable Protection? 4. Can rogues finally get bucklers and corresponding proficiency?
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Post by arek on May 29, 2020 5:34:29 GMT
I like the BAC changes more than changing the DEX cap for one big reason: Assuming that the dex caps are static, it will take fewer zots. Funky has already stated that changing the dex cap requires a plugin edit (this probably holds true regardless of whether or not they're static) - which only one person with very limited time can do atm. -- arek
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Post by FunkySwerve on May 29, 2020 8:48:21 GMT
I like the BAC changes more than changing the DEX cap for one big reason: Assuming that the dex caps are static, it will take fewer zots. Funky has already stated that changing the dex cap requires a plugin edit (this probably holds true regardless of whether or not they're static) - which only one person with very limited time can do atm. -- arekCorrect, altering the dex cap requires a plugin edit either way. At some point I may invest some zots in working out how to do those, as being unable to do so is increasingly frustrating. Funkys
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Post by thomascovenant on May 30, 2020 1:02:38 GMT
Funky made a joke, you guys missed it. He is looking to find more information on potential base armor / shield balance changes. The most recent one is my post he linked in the OP, but he was looking to see if someone remembered/still had the old DEV slated edits hidden stashed away somewhere or simply remembered their whereabouts, or if all else fails if someone has a better proposal / idea than what I had written down a while back. I am kind of surprise to saw no one who suggest to have a universal armor, i mean a armor who can change from heavy, medium, light or none in the same way we have for like the styx asmo boots And wny not to have it to have some other randomized in the same way we have for weapons like the lvl 50 ones where the armor will have some randomize immus by a unique power who will fix the elementals and exotic immus it will have forever And why not some special proprietys like levitation, breath underwater, passwall etc from another power the armor could have Imagine an armor who can evoluate with the char levels, like from mortal lvl 40 you gone have some ac and propriety who are augment and add on it depending the char levels, but also with the tags the char succeed to have when wearing the armor to see add propriety on it. The same things can be for a shield too
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