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Post by jelricle on Aug 16, 2020 20:38:28 GMT
"Rogue-like" <--- See what I did there? ;-)
Anyhoo, I wanted to suggest to the developers of Higher Ground that the kobold commando shifter form be allowed to disable traps that are over level 35, if their disable trap ability can be enhanced high enough, just like a rogue can. In roleplay support of this, the commando is a trap master. They get benefits to "set trap" and we have actually given them a trap-like special ability. One would think that they would also be adept enough to disable a trap that is within their skill level. In terms of gameplay, I do not think that this would be unbalanced. Disable traps is cross-class for shifters (and druids) and they only get a measly 4 points/level by default. Yes, you can augment disable traps with items, but you need to sacrifice the benefits from other items to do so.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 17, 2020 16:01:17 GMT
I'm deliberately keeping mum about this to see what the community thinks.
Funky
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Post by tomaan on Aug 17, 2020 16:55:14 GMT
I'm generally in favor of giving shifters nerfed rogue abilities beyond simply disabling traps. Is there any way it can be tied to a form or feat progression that effectively "isolates" it from other shifter builds?
IE: the shifter tank/lash build doesn't really do very well with spell-like abilities, and while the ability mage can tank, it's not in the same league as the shifter tank.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2020 17:14:55 GMT
This just hurts rogues even more and makes them even more worthless. Now, that doesn’t necessarily bother me. It just further exacerbates that issue. I don’t think ability shifters getting the chance to do this up to LL would be a negative. I think hard rogue levels should be required for rogue duties in end game.
I know some hate the elf based rogue splash concepts, which ultimately is a separate topic. It isn’t a concern for me. But, to get Kobold Commando you need human focus. It’s very specific. And that PLUS wisdom should dictate what their rogue duties are capped at 43 a pop, or whatever LL needs. Or even just giving the access 1-40 exclusively and then requiring hard rogue levels otherwise.
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Post by woqued on Aug 17, 2020 20:18:42 GMT
I think it's really cool! Having moderate picking power accessible to any shifter and the 127 trap disabling/(picking?) capability require 30(50) shifter levels to demand proper investment for "endgame" rewards.
Even better if new areas like the Mechanus or other future areas require/reward trap disabling outside chests; this would make shifter/rogue presence more important and cherished. It can be a tough one to implement without causing immense headache on players though, which could be the wanted side-effect for a grandiose prize.
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Post by jelricle on Aug 18, 2020 20:55:39 GMT
I would also like to reiterate, if anybody feels this will give to much power to shifters, that disable traps is a cross-class skill and shifters only get 4 skill points/level base. It takes planning, sacrifice and/or juggling to get disable traps high enough (particularly for folks that like to hit tags that are above their level)
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Post by woqued on Aug 19, 2020 8:01:56 GMT
I would also like to reiterate, if anybody feels this will give to much power to shifters, that disable traps is a cross-class skill and shifters only get 4 skill points/level base. It takes planning, sacrifice and/or juggling to get disable traps high enough (particularly for folks that like to hit tags that are above their level) For endgame characters, it would not require that much sacrifice or investment. The building game is a lot different later on and the balance from 1-40 to 40-60 to 60-80 is very different in all of those phases, for both character power and what the runs require.
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Post by jelricle on Aug 19, 2020 14:10:49 GMT
Sure. Heh, I readily admit that I would not know about that. If you noticed in my posts, I haven't even breached "Epic" level yet. :-D However, would the ability of shifters, who appropriately assign points, foci and equipment, to disable 35+ level traps skew the game that much in the endgame?
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Post by woqued on Aug 19, 2020 15:19:42 GMT
Sure. Heh, I readily admit that I would not know about that. If you noticed in my posts, I haven't even breached "Epic" level yet. :-D However, would the ability of shifters, who appropriately assign points, foci and equipment, to disable 35+ level traps skew the game that much in the endgame? Very unlikely. Whether it's even worth implementing, how it would be done and the time/effort to do so is another matter. Would it be fun? Yes. Would it fit lore-wise the way Kobolds are? Yes. Is it needed? Probably not. Is it worth the time/effort? Up to devs. Thoughts on power: Early game (1-40): don't see any problems whatsoever, in fact it would really help people wanting to do 1-40 solo without multiboxing especially for newer players. Midgame (40-60): don't see any problems whatsoever, again, mostly helps newer players if any; having a jack of all trades besides Sorc would be amazing (pixie just straight up makes the game feel better at 1-60, I see shifter with similar capabilities as a similar positive). 60-80: Would it be op? Unlikely, currently shifters mostly see play in aboleths and as shifterlashes, caster shifters having utility would be welcome (hence earlier suggestion to limit to 30 shifter). Castershifters saw play pre-XR weapons, but fare much worse now relatively after nerfs to poison/azer and op weapons joining the fray. Caster shifters are much less popular now, but that too is volatile and "metabound". - although the new buff to pure Lashes means that we may see more Lash and less shifterlash in general (buff was absolutely massive, remove weakness vs non-favored mobs (great), +5% vs favored at 80 was unnecessary, though welcome and maybe even needed after a potential future 2h nerf and to give ranger CC lashes a small bump). Potential future skewing factors for adding rogue utility to Shitter repertoire at 60+ content: - 2h nerf => shifters rise up in ranks in relative power - Any nerfs to supportive epics and epic/paragon spells helps Shifters in the competition with caster types - Mechanus may offer new shining moments for Shifters unbeknownst to both Devs and Players when it comes out which may further make adding more endgame versatility to shifters a problem in the flat power + utility paradigm - but again, I find it unlikely to cause much concern. It would still require humanoid after all.
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Post by jelricle on Aug 29, 2020 21:20:39 GMT
:-D All I wanted to do was see what is in the east road bandit chief's chest. I am willing to bet that other pre-legendary chests will eventually give me the same trouble
An alternative would be to allow trapped chests to open, once the trap was triggered. That way I could work to buff my protections enough to trigger the trap, and then open it.
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Post by jelricle on Sept 14, 2020 16:48:13 GMT
Okay. I have found a workaround while taking a break and going to kill Lolth -- The regular NWN campaign mega-module by Trev (Jones), not our HG incarnation of her -- I simply recovered the trap instead of disabling it (There is no cap for trap recovery) I still feel that commandoes should be able to _disable_ traps of any difficulty, if their skill is high enough. Being cross-class should be enough of a hindrance, without requiring the additional 10 skill points. On a side note, does anybody want a deadly holy trap kit? Low price! ;-)
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Post by desocupado on Sept 14, 2020 16:56:31 GMT
Anyone be allowed to disable traps that are over level 35 Fixed. I really can't understand what that restriction accomplishes in the first place.
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Post by simpetar on Sept 15, 2020 12:08:07 GMT
I still feel that commandoes should be able to _disable_ traps of any difficulty, if their skill is high enough. Being cross-class should be enough of a hindrance, without requiring the additional 10 skill points. Disarm traps being cross-class would not be "only" hindrance to the ability to deal with end game chests, but make it darn near impossible (i.e. you would need 76 intelligence at least, good luck ). Other than that I tend to agree that it would not hurt the game too much and kobolds fit the theme nicely, provided that real rogues get some carrot for... you know... being real rogues Scaling would have to be somewhat different. Ideas: 1. Animal empathy translates directly into search / OL / DT while in kobold form with LFF1 (...although you cannot use picks while shifted, sigh) 2. You can cross-class the skill, but also get a bonus equal to your shifter level in skill points outside the magical cap, much like bards get bonus lore scaling with their bard level
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Post by jelricle on Sept 20, 2020 20:21:45 GMT
Using "recover Trap" if saving my solo game, particularly now that I have finally found a "Amulet of the master" to replace my "lesser amulet of the master") But I really would appreciate the 10 points back.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 20:29:44 GMT
Reincarnate. Re-roll. Either option will work.
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