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Post by witlak on Oct 28, 2020 11:21:17 GMT
Imo we need a Drow Fighter Bur.
Lore:
While the female nobles will become clerics (priests), the male nobles have more than one possibility. The first son will follow the way of the arcane arts. But the second son will become a fighter to claim the position of the weapon master of his house one day. The third son… well he will be a sacrifice for Lolth (Lloth) or become the leader of a mercenary guild.
Str, Dex, Con all +4. Trained from the earliest youth the drow male nobles are in a great physically shape.
Wis -2 all the propapaganda will lower your discernment.
Int +2 while not a genius in the classic way you learn how to use your environment for advantage in battle
Cha –> no changes. While the drow are one of the more attractive races this will be balanced by their reputation
Feats: 2 Weapon Fighting, Improved 2 Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity
(Although drow use shields we all have a guy with 2 scims in mind)
Add the half of the dex modifier as shield ac when using 2 weapons of the same kind
Reduce the 2 weapon penalty by 50% when using 2 weapons of the same kind
(not sure if this can be added)
The priests and the arcanes are well known but drow are feared because of their cruelty and fighting skills. One is even the greatest sword fighter of all Faerûn.
And tbh we all want our personal you know who.
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Post by dagoon on Oct 28, 2020 11:46:04 GMT
+ unable to use scimitars 😂
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Post by Lil' Mikey (Msowby2) on Oct 29, 2020 18:13:37 GMT
Lore set aside having an alternative 'tank' race would be refreshing. Two weapon damage is a meme but if this race gave damage bonuses for using two weapons that would be cool- or maybe include the bonuses to double weapons? Just a thought. Having the -wisdom would generally make it less desirable for a monk splash, so your ac would likely be too low to compete with other tanks. Just a few things to consider  |
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Post by witlak on Nov 3, 2020 11:22:08 GMT
Having the -wisdom would generally make it less desirable for a monk splash, so your ac would likely be too low to compete with other tanks.
Thats the reason for the half dex modifier shield ac.
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Post by simpetar on Nov 3, 2020 16:19:09 GMT
Having the -wisdom would generally make it less desirable for a monk splash ...or making a ranger with 2 scimitars and kitty companion? |
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Post by woqued on Nov 3, 2020 18:27:31 GMT
Drow Fighter idea is cool enough. You didn't ask for the feedback, but Here's Johnny!
Half dex modifier shield ac is nuts broken, this race would vastly outperform any XR sub for a finished build at 80, easily leaving Deathless and the like in the dirt with the caveat that you gotta dual-wield. Consider FTR/WM/Harper/Barb <- pick 3. Way too good, get monk tier ac without paying for it by splashing and get to wear non-robes. Also, Fighters have enough spare feats to fit in dualwielding feats without losing much elsewhere, so those are not the best things to aim at a Fighter specifically. For dualwielders specifically, even if you entirely removed the dex ac to shield ac part, it is competing with Kolyarut in terms of flat stats and free feats for dualwielder builds.
I know it's hard to make dualwielding competitive, but an op subrace isn't the way. The playing field needs to be leveled so that a normal sub can compete. If it were to be made more balanced, 1/3 of Dex modifier would be more in line, and even then it should be upgraded into XR and given +2 stats increase to Dex, and that's not even considering the dualwielding penalty in any way (which should be done by buffing dualwielding feats, not by a new subrace!). Dunno how to really fix the dex modifier anyways, even flat +4 would make it the best bur sub by far (+14 relevant stats, +4 ac, +3 feats); and enter into XR territory in power for non-Divine Shield/Monk/Ranger builds.
Example fighter feats to clarify why pre-epic base combat feats aren't the greatest:
11 bonus feats just for being a fighter leveling to 20. -1 for weapon spec, so lets find 10 feats:
WF, IC, ADex, TWF, ITWF, Cleave, GCleave, Parry, IParry.
^All mandatory feats taken cost us 9 feats including dualwield feats. Ok so we could add in WM feats; Dodge, Mobility, Expertise, Spring attack, Whirlwind. We got to 10, + 4 extra, so lvls 3,6,9, 12. Still lvl 1 feat untaken (Let's assume Slippery soul for sake of saves); 15,18 untaken. Sooo... Improved power attack, GWF, more saves (iron will for Harper), maybe kd/disarm, or alertness if we go Harper as well. But honestly pigeonholing fighter subs with base feats driving you to WM/Harper/Dualwield is a waste, more unique options exist that allow more usefulness for subs. Less relevant for BUR subs, but definitely a pitfall of XR subs; so many of them have some weird ass pigeonholing or downright poor feat selection when it comes to pre-epic feats, let's not repeat that! If we had the 3 two-weapon fighting things for free, we'd have to take pretty much everything available pre-epics just to use our feats, whether we want it in our build or not.
TLDR: Forcing choice pre-epics is better than force-feeding everything and leaving you sour for having to take it all and removing choice.
Elven Fighters benefit from: flat stats (str/dex/int primarily, con secondary, wis/cha if they use those respective splashes), saves, skill points, free EPIC feats, base bonuses on subrace (like various imms, evasion, unique stuff like kb %, etc), unique stuff locked behind bars like lvl 1 feat spreads that normally only Humans have access to, random unique stuff helping with Fightering (hitting/taking hits/avoiding hits). So, this leads us to a couple ideas for replacing the dualwielding feats and opening up other venues for a more versatile Drow Fighter subrace:
LVL 1 feats that either enable saves, skills to allow not relying on specific splashes such as Slippery Soul, Stealthy (for Hide later, and very Drowy feat); splash unlock feats such as Alertness, Expertise; base power increases such as Evasion and SR +lvl (homage to the stupid Drows in Drowland), unique stuff like OC/DC feats granted upon taking Improved Critical feat (or Power Critical?) regardless of character STR. If you-know-who is the inspiration, perhaps Luck of Heroes, Slippery Soul, Stealthy and Evasion would be the choices for the sub (with slight nerf to Stats with it); Drizzt woulda died 200 times doing the dumb stuff he did without these intrinsics.
Or to propose some completely outlandish and offtopic:
Base race: Elf
XR: Demi-Draegloth
Male: +6 str +6 dex +6 con +0 int -2 wis -2 cha, Free feats: Ambidexterity, Evasion, Toughness, Slippery Soul, Inherent bonuses: Immune: Poison, Charmed, Very Fast Movement
Female: +3 str +3 dex +2 con +2 int +6 wis +0 cha, Free feats: SF/GSF Divination, Qualifies for LSA:Listen Immune: Poison, Charmed, Fast Movement
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Post by witlak on Nov 5, 2020 11:20:20 GMT
Having the -wisdom would generally make it less desirable for a monk splash ...or making a ranger with 2 scimitars and kitty companion? Well, its a fighter bur. And you know who is no BUR. Not even XR. More XR+++ |
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Post by witlak on Nov 5, 2020 11:38:33 GMT
@ woqued:
Thanks for the feedback.
I dont think that it would be too op. The sum of the stats is 12. This is the sum a lot of burs have. Undying has even 14.
3 feats and 1 special ability is always a normal number for burs.
If you push your dex to 80 you will have an ac around 155. Its the same my zen has. To prevend monk splash we can say the char must be chaotic evil.
I think the feats and stats are obvious if we keep lore in mind. And i like dualwielding. Even before Drizzt, yup i am that old. We have a special bur for every (quasi/prestige)-class (looking at you furchin) but not for the most famous/feared fighters in the forgotten realms.
I am open for any ideas.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2020 13:21:39 GMT
I think your suggestion ultimately comes in trying to fix duel wield weapon users. Those changes need to come from systemic adjustments, not tied directly to a single subrace or item(s). We have seen that with the hard mode limbo gloves already.
I personally feel that if these systemic changes are implemented you have enough options on the BUR tier to truly capture what you’re kind of after here and anything implemented would belong on the XR tier to add more flavor to the general premise.
Just my $0.02
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Post by boroie on Nov 5, 2020 16:17:24 GMT
we can say the char must be chaotic evil. Lets just call it Artemis Entreri....  |
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Post by witlak on Nov 6, 2020 20:06:34 GMT
we can say the char must be chaotic evil. Lets just call it Artemis Entreri.... Nerd mode on: Artemis is lawful evil. Nerd mode off. |
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Post by boroie on Nov 7, 2020 19:08:35 GMT
Lets just call it Artemis Entreri.... Nerd mode on: Artemis is lawful evil. Nerd mode off. love it! |
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