Forge Idea

[Matt]

Idea - Forge 4 items (or X amount) of the same rarity with the chance to get a random item of the same or higher quality. Dont know if this would contradict the way the forge works and whatnot but recently having seen this method of crafting in another game it's what i seem to do with everything that i dont want rather than selling.

[Matt]

Edit - Would not be viable to forge BUR's into XRs as such now that i think about it. However i think burning 4 items to create another random item of the same rarity is an option.

[chirality]

Compared to re-randomizing, this proposal would offer a way to slotmachine new BURs (I assume XRs aren't included in the suggestion for obvious reasons) of any base type, but instead of slotmachining one trash item over again with non-BUR ingredients (gold, secrets), you would slotmachine a random new BUR in exchange for 4 trash items.

It's not a direct 1:1 cost comparison, but it would probably be easier, cheaper, and more convenient to recycle 4 BURs directly for 1 new BUR, than it is to use gold + reagents to get a new BUR of the same piece that you want a reroll of. Trash random gear is far more common and farmable than secrets are, and that farming is much more rewarding/efficient.

On the other hand, extreme amounts of gold are undeniably useful (for the aug shop and Ixion), and BURs are the primary raw material to transmute into gold, so adding a third competing option for making something out of trash BURs (along with electrifying them, and selling them to make gold to pay for augs or forging) might not necessarily be a bad thing. The demand for any and all of these options varies wildly based on how rich the player in question is (in terms of both gear and money) so there's not much of a one-size-fits-all cost for how many trash BURs are worth a lottery shot at a new one. 4 is probably about right, but I think the concept itself probably isn't something Funky wants (else, it should have been implemented many years ago, along with letting us swap 4 DB weaps for a new one, or 4 bard boots for a new tia item, etc--derail below)

Considering that the loot system is more or less based on 90%+ items of any given rarity being trash (and probably something close to 10% of runs seeking a specific piece of set loot also resulting in success), I'm doubtful that a mechanic like this would get the stamp of approval (especially so late in the module's lifecycle, where decades of collecting and recycling trash items has already happened with existing methods).

I think it would definitely be popular and appreciated by players--again, just another option, possibly--and it might even be relatively easy to implement (Ixion forge option, he takes 4 items and a new one pops in place--could also use the Alchemist in town for lowbie gear/weapons--more derail, but an idea I've had in the past)--but then again, no one seemed interested enough to post yet, either, so I could be wrong there.

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[derail]I've always wanted to see a similar scheme implemented for weapons and class-specific set loot of different flavors (namely, caster gear), a mechanic which would share similar downsides and offers similar "risks" for a benefit that is similarly questionable at this point in the game.[/derail]

[yune]

It'd make loot splits in Hells+ way longer and more tedious. No more bulkselling 80% of the loot.

[Matt]

Don't think it would make runs more tedious, as splits take as long as people make the splits take in any case. However, personally, I think it would add some more excitement to the game and provide a use for bits of gear you dont want or arent useful for your characters. Feed my gambling habits too.

Just a suggestion anyway, wouldn't bat an eyelid if it wasn't implemented, but on the same hand, it wouldn't completely change the way I play the game. However i would actually bother picking up loot again

Thanks for the input so far.

[chirality]

Jun 11, 2022 15:53:11 GMT yune said:

It'd make loot splits in Hells+ way longer and more tedious. No more bulkselling 80% of the loot.

If you're implying that introducing this idea would suddenly make people stop using bulksell in order to recycle URs/rare rings (I imagine that's what you meant by 80% of loot; obviously BURs don't comprise 80% of loot, and even if they did...did you bulksell BURs when you were a noob...?).

I hadn't even considered that. However, the "threat" of changing the way anyone already plays the game seems unimpressive. Who would bother? The same people that already make splits in Hells+ tedious and lengthy: the ones who collect every broken BUR to electrify, every consumable, etc. There's always players that stall the split going back and forth between 2-3 people picking broken BURs that everyone else already passed on, and there's always the one guy that will patiently wait until everyone else (even the other patient greedy ones) passes, and then sit there grabbing every last item that has any remote use, because they're greedy, and have less respect for the time of others than they do for their own profits.

You want to know how we fixed splits being long and tedious? After the first couple rounds, it's a free-for-all. Easy solution. If you have problems with splits taking too long, then the best way to resolve that issue is to change the way you handle splitting. Otherwise the guy who still--even after 20 years of playing and with chest upon chest of them--banks every last netherese power orb, trap kit, or research crystal, is going to spend 20 minutes going back and forth with the poor noob that wants every trash BUR, while everyone else waits awkwardly for bulksell gold or just logs off because they're not greedy enough to care.

On the other hand, for close friends doing a tiny/botted run, or someone soloing who is looking to collect BURs to electrify, gems, or URs to sell from an appraiser, this proposal would merely offer another option for what to do with the trash loot they're already meticulously collecting. I don't see how the possibility of recycling URs or trash BURs 4 at a time to have a 5% chance at getting a new non-trash BUR would entice people to completely stop bulkselling the 80% trash content of loot when they do runs that they aren't already not bulkselling 80% of the loot.

I admit I hadn't even thought about the impact you suggest, although now that I've done so, I still don't see a realistic problem.

Unless you and everyone else in the split are bulkselling BURs, and this change would aggravate you by suddenly having to collect BURs to re-roll at a 25% loss and with the expected new randomization also being crap anyway, how would anything change?

I was basing my feedback in the earlier post on the idea of this being an option to be used by people that are already choosing to collect loot to maximize profit--for example, solo/tinyparty farming. It hadn't occurred to me that a party would agree to turn off or downshift autosell just for the chance of recycling junk to slotmachine something that is 95% guaranteed to be junk anyway (just like rerand or popping "new" BURs--the same exact miniscule odds of getting something that's not trash are the same odds you'd be up against when trading in 4 pieces of trash for something new...I don't think most gamblers would consider that worth changing their party split habits for).

I could be wrong, of course. I guess I was really thinking about stuff like horribad broken gear that isn't even worth much gold relative to its rarity tier/inventory space, and could be a good candidate for a new option at recycling. For example, BUR armors with all props removed that don't sell for anything, mediocre BURs that are easily hoard-able and aren't worth a lot (nerfed rings for instance), and so on. That seems appealing to me. I think most new players go through a phase where they pick crappy URs (and then, eventually, crappy BURs) and end up with chests of them, because they haven't quite plateaued into rich vets yet. Once you no longer need that crap, there's nothing to do with it but pass it on to noobs (not even an option for the truly crap stuff, because by the time you're a real "vet" you can pass on legit-but-not-elite randoms that you don't need, instead of just bad ones), electrify it, or sell it in town in a meager attempt to make some cash. If you can recycle it instead, I see that as simply expanding the options available, especially considering the 1:4 ratio and the slotmachine odds that ensure you're most likely going to get yet another piece of trash or mediocre-at-best randomization anyway.

tl;dr my response above was predicated more on seeing something like this as another option for parties that are already spending extra time collecting things to take advantage of, not seeing this lottery as something attractive enough to completely shift the way people decided to split loot. I am not convinced that the ability to recycle 4 broken items to get a brand new broken item 19/20 times is appealing enough to make anyone suddenly hoard broken stuff, if they weren't already doing so.