Half-Fiend vs Half-Kyton

[chainlink]

Any chance of giving the Half-Fiend a couple of feats as I would have guessed this sub-race was aimed at an assassin but as it currently stands I believe you'd be better off using the Half-Kyton due to the free Weapon Master feats? Effectively you currently get four free feats (two of which benefit an assassin) on HK vs sr 70 (nice but not a build winner) and strider (again nice but only really currently beneficial in a couple of areas).

"Half-Fiend" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement (adds wings)
DEX +6, CON +4, INT +4, Wis -2, CHA -2, +6 hide, +6 move silently, sr 10 + 1/lvl, able to walk on quicksand

"Half-Kyton" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement
DEX +4, WIS +4, CON +4, free feat: Improved Spell Resistance 1, free feat: Improved Spell Resistance 2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Mobility, +8 hide, +8 move silent, +10 tumble

[the1kobra]

You.,.... want to make..... 1/2 fiends.... better..??
I really am not sure that is wise. If they take an elf or halfling base, they get a wh00ping +8 to dexterity, and they have SR to boot. Pretty much, they are one of the most versatile subs you can get, they can make rogues, assasins, Arcane archers, and with the intelligence bonus, they can make decent wizards as well. Pretty much, they can do *anything*. 1/2 Kytons do better in WM or monk regards, due to the wis bonus, but seriously, +8 dex is hard to beat.
(The only thing that can match the +8 is the erinyes, and they're.............)

[chainlink]

Half-Kyton based on Elf gets +6 Dex and by time you get to +6 or +8 the +1ab/ac/dc is not the end of the world. 70 sr is really only useful in a couple of LL areas and even then the casters will beat it quite often, once you go Hellbound the Raks will blow you away sr or not.
All I'm saying is that I believe if assassin (I'm not saying it is) is the primary build for Half-Fiends it would not hurt to give them a couple of feats as most of the other BUR subbys have at least one feat that benefits their primary build choice.
And I have Erinyes and no I don't care that it looks like that and yes I built my Erinyes Rogue AA on Elf to get +8 Dex plus I got a load of free feats to assist this build so it feels a bit like the Half-Fiend got a bit short changed in the feats department.
In fact Half-Celestial gets the sr, strider, two spell feats and an ESF so no I don't think Half-Fiend is overpowered for a BUR subby.
Hello Mr Half-Fiend, you want some free feats sir, sorry we're all out would you care for 70 sr and strider instead?

[lala]

I think thats asking a fair amount bud.
The reason Half-Kyton get their feats is because of less ability stats.

So would you be happy to get those feats if Fiend loses some stats?
Probably not ;D

[chainlink]

Half-Kyton +12 stats, Half-Fiend +10 stats, apart from Howler all the BUR subbys get either +10 or +12 to stats so I'm not seeing how the Half-Fiend stats are significantly better than Half-Kyton or in fact Erinyes. Anyway I'm waiting for the bosses response if he thinks its worth giving one.

[FunkySwerve]

Subbies with more stat points have less concentrated distributions of those bonuses.
Funky

[thedomicron]

half kyton is better than half fiend for weapon masters, but if you don't need dodge and mobility there's not a whole lot its great for that fiend can't do better

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

Plus, half fiend has wings, which makes it pretty, in a creepy kindof way.

[chainlink]

Apart from assassins which are short on spare feats if you make the big assumption that Half-Fiend was designed for assassin. If you do then a WM/assassin is better off with Half-Kyton.

[FunkySwerve]

Yeah, I'm not sure why you made that assumption to start. Not every class got a subby - HF was intended more for dexers in general than any one class.
Funky

[chainlink]

The hide and move silently skill points and I guess the fact that Half-Fiends sound like they should be assassins