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Post by Midnite [UE] on Jan 7, 2008 15:48:31 GMT
The lag really messed us up in the beginning with the slow heal times, invis creatures, etc... However the Lloth run is not the basis for blame. That run did great until Asmo fight, which I believe it was mainly lack of understanding, there were quite a few first timers for that perticular fight, and perhaps we didn't explain and make sure they had a better understanding of the situation.
Although it wasn't me who made the shout, I apologize for that. It was just extremely irritating to have such a good run, only to wipe at the end, especially with crappy loot. 2 BURs, lol, they were both maelephant books.
I'd be happy to attempt it again, seeing as I do not believe it was our party make-up nor players who caused the wipe, simply a lack of understandning of the boss battle, as well as lag, both client and server side.
On a second note, I counted at least 4-5 invisible creatures, Blood Serpent and malebranche being the more annoying ones.
Midnite
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Post by Ironfang on Jan 7, 2008 16:15:42 GMT
Think it just bears mentioning again. A failed 4-6 hour Nessus run should net more loot. I just read about my Guildmates who wiped at Asmo and came away with 1 BUR (After party members lost at least 5 items). The Nessus run I was on had no BURs until the Asmo loot. This one had 2. I think investing that much time and risking your items shouldn't have such a high percentage chance of walking away with less than you started with.
Couldn't one or two of the Chests be moved to the end of the 2nd map?
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Post by stonewarrior on Jan 7, 2008 16:26:38 GMT
Sorry to hear ya'll were unsuccessful. The intial spawn is in a word: Insane. We had a similar situation in that we made it to the boss fight in pretty good shape and managed to get to the third form where we got crushed. Also like ya'll the loot was sad...one BUR, the Deck of Cards and a few UR's. Made losing all the more frustrating. Good luck next weekend!
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Post by Raj on Jan 7, 2008 18:42:51 GMT
I think loot is fine as it is, crap if you fail, as that's a run nobody does just to farm loot. The set chest is placed friendly anyway. Party did it fine, 90% due to the overpowered turner ( had to be said, finally I have mine hell ready, time for a nerf ) who ended stucked by a invisible ( to me at least ) snake, and couple other nasty monsters were invisible to me as well, terribly annoying. I'd like to see a small delay of time between the spawns in the last area, not to make things easier ( just a delay of 2-3 rounds, usually people are under immute or monsters are miracled anyway ): let asmo + 10 bodyguards spawn istantly, wait 10 seconds, spawn 10 more guys, wait, spawn remaining ones... I think that would help load the various creatures
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Post by zerragon on Jan 7, 2008 18:49:04 GMT
The lag really messed us up in the beginning with the slow heal times, invis creatures, etc... However the Lloth run is not the basis for blame. That run did great until Asmo fight, which I believe it was mainly lack of understanding, there were quite a few first timers for that perticular fight, and perhaps we didn't explain and make sure they had a better understanding of the situation. Yeah, agree on that, the first timers should get some more input on what to do in the Asmodeus fight, so cant really blame them. Its a risk to do Nessus, a potentinal waste of time, but a success will yield the best rewards in a game. I think it should stay like this. The invisible monsters, however, can be very annoying !, but will be fixed when the !reveal command starts to work as intended. Spreading the spawn over some more seconds sounds reasonable to reduce the chance of invisible mobs.
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Post by cataclysmic on Jan 7, 2008 18:54:58 GMT
Thanks for the post Zerr. Unfortunately someone from that party was a little frustrated & shouted to all the servers that the Lloth party caused their lag-death failure. Hopefully they'll be a little more discrete in the future ... Kaldair 0.o Hehe I had just completed succesfully my third attempt at Lolth on another server when that shout came thru, there were about 4 or 5 Lolth runs that day so the party on 2 who were doing lolth probably had very little choice about where they were gunna do that particular run. I have to say tho that it wasn't just your server that was laggy, every server i went on seemd very laggy and I know servers 5, 4 and 3 I was jumping about all over the place, Lolth was a nightmare for us lag wise on server 6 and there wasn't much going on. Hope ya have better luck next time If ya got a slot free mebbe I will bring my DD
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Post by Midnite [UE] on Jan 7, 2008 19:11:49 GMT
In my opinion, this was a serious blow to the rest of the party.. No class did more then the other.. if the tanks didnt tank, the casters and such would have been pwned.. and even the almighty turner wouldve been beat down, just the same if not for the casters buffing the party, penalizing mobs with various attacks, etc, the tanks wouldve have way to much to deal with.. To say anyone class was more reason of any type of success to the other, makes me feel like I wasted my time.. Dunno if anyone else feels the same. I actually hope Turners get nerfed, because Im actually quite irritated of going on a run, and the turner gets all the glory, while the other partymembers do just as much.
Midnite
Note* Raj in no way is this mean't to offend you lol, just my opinion on that quoted subject.
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Post by Raj on Jan 7, 2008 19:20:03 GMT
I know everybody is necessary, obviously, I was in that party too but this is the first time I wipe with a turner in party, every other time their crowd control abilities made things so much easier... and this time he's been cut out of action so there was a lot more running and swinging during last fight Btw, I hope you noticed how during whole run all the fodder was being annihilated ( sometime even before they were cursed ), and tanks had to focus on one or max 2 big targets, making that a very fast and easy run in my opinion ( that's why you didn't hear me rant too much after the wipe ^^ ) Other class abilities simply pale in comparison to a well supported turner, usually monsters vanish before they can get dev critted / stoned / bigbized / imploded etc etc, w/o efforts
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Jan 7, 2008 21:24:57 GMT
The key being well supported. You don't see turners trying to solo hell layers, after all.
Like any class...the party wins or loses as a whole, works together or stumbles around like 10 individuals. Working together, and adjusting off each other, and adapting to the situations are far superior to just taking X class with Y spells and using the same setup mindlessly, no matter where you are or who you're with.
I didn't see the fight, but its possible that people weren't able to adapt or react to an immobilized turner. And I bet there was unluckiness also. Luck is always a factor, what with randoms spawns and summoning.
One time, we lucked out in a summon and got 3 ossyluths. We laughed and kept right on fighting Asmo.
Another time, we got 3 ichors, 3 pit fiends, 3 malebranches, and some erinyes to run around and make a mess. That one...didn't go so well.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 7, 2008 21:42:20 GMT
The key being well supported. You don't see turners trying to solo hell layers, after all. Like any class...the party wins or loses as a whole, works together or stumbles around like 10 individuals. Working together, and adjusting off each other, and adapting to the situations are far superior to just taking X class with Y spells and using the same setup mindlessly, no matter where you are or who you're with. This is a nice soundbite, but turners are quite obviously overpowered, as raj points out. We've been kicking around possible solutions for a couple months now, and I think we finally have something. It'll be some time before it gets implemented, however, since we just discovered a rounding error that was causing some very tough spawns (cornies and amnizus) to have lower than intended TR, and we want to regauge the amount of the nerf. funky
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Post by Gailin Iceheart on Jan 7, 2008 23:50:35 GMT
I watched you, that place is allways laggy when you enter, because of the massive spawn. The Lloth party had stopped, half of them logged off, so it was only your party engaged in combat on that server, and the memory use was low, so it was gfx lag you experienced mostly. Just think about how many successful Nessus runs Delf has completed, and she lags worse than everyone because of her über crappy computer, and often crashes, in that spawn. Though, as Raj told me he got an invisible worm ,which is rather bad luck as they are high priority targets with such a caster heavy group. There were however some flaws in how you approached the Asmodeus encounter, but Im not commenting on that I dont want to put people in bad light. I just dont think you can blame lag for failing that one. Good luck on your next attempt \ I don't suppose you saw Asmo slap me down 5 times in about 10 seconds. I thought there was a small window of oportunity to at least run a foot or two b4 getting insta-killed again?
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Post by Raj on Jan 8, 2008 8:59:08 GMT
The key being well supported. You don't see turners trying to solo hell layers, after all. obviously but we had a problem in the maze.. druid ran over a teleport trigger, mage had some issues too, and I don't know how our turner ended into the maze gsed rezing people: he was able to spam turns and I was seeing ''turner killed someone. 1010 xp gained. 960 xp gained. 1000 xp gained etc etc'' for a couple minutes, trying desperately to convince others to leeroy while he got all the glory @funky: perfect, time to make those 5 last levels but I'm not angry lol
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Post by Tonkers on Jan 8, 2008 9:06:48 GMT
Ah but was it a pure turner or a splash turner theres huge differences i have seen, Pure turners rock the place without bard song where as a splash turner needs song to do some dmg. Cries- but am guessing both sets of turners will get nerfage time to get rdy to delete mine and wait till nerfage is done to determine what to do next i guess But as for lag of late it has been a tad annoying mind you my laptop isnt of the top range You lot that did nessus virtually had the server to yourselves so cant understand where you got lag
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Post by Raj on Jan 8, 2008 9:33:57 GMT
I didn't complain about lag, it was fine ^^ just invisible monsters irked me pure turner, even w/o bardsong mine is old school splashed, started to level up 4 months ago even wasting a sapphire, I'm so bad at play lowbies
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Post by chainlink on Jan 8, 2008 9:37:03 GMT
It was a pure turner but there are nasty penalties with taking a pure turner as you have to take specific stats and feats to make one and there is very little room for manuver especially when you get to epic levels. You won't see even a pure turner soloing the Hells as they are very vulnerable to Str & Dex checks and reflex based saves, thus they get KD, stoned and dommed a lot and without a party to defend the immobilised turner they're dead. You do need a bard as the curse song enables you to destroy a load more stuff, without one in the deeper levels you'll destroy squat. I remember doing Nessus ages ago with a splash turner and whilst the effect was good it was somewhat reduced by the fact we also had a shifter (when spiking was still worth doing) who would almost instantaneously unturn everything. Since the spikes change I can't say i've been in a single party with a shifter so it looks like the balance has shifted again.
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