Empty Body or Self Conceal V

[helbrax]

I'm designing a toon that will have 30 pre-LL levels of Monk.

However, I can't decide if I want to spend 5 feats on getting self-conceal V, or just use the HG modified version of empty body. I know self-conceal V is permanent, but Empty Body would give me 60% conceal at level 40, lasts 30 rounds, can be used twice a day, and cannot be dispelled.

So is it worth the 5 feat loss to gain permanent 50% concealment, or gain 5 feats and live with temporary 60% concealment?

[bort]

It's about convienience really. I like having 50% conceal always, and more twice a day.
I recently levelled a monk to 45 with both empty body (36 monk levels) and 50% conceal and found that it doesn't take much to die twice (although with 36 levels of monk and good gear, it's generally from implodes more than anything else).
For hells I'd definately want Self Conceal for those times between dying twice and resting.

[chainlink]

I managed to fit in SC V at no real cost to my unarmed monk build, I tend to use the Empty Body when I know its going to get dodgy (Hells boss fights or nasty suprise spawns, etc) and just run with the 50% the rest of the time.

[helbrax]

chainlink said:

I managed to fit in SC V at no real cost to my unarmed monk build, I tend to use the Empty Body when I know its going to get dodgy (Hells boss fights or nasty suprise spawns, etc) and just run with the 50% the rest of the time.

So if you use empty body, it effectively replaces self conceal for the duration of the skill? That sounds nifty. I think I'll go with self conceal.

What's the damage output like on your Monk? I can't decide if I want to go unarmed, or dual wield Kama for the extra attacks.

[starlandra]

problem with that is you are losing 2.5 points of ac and ab that you could be pumping into your dex. Unarmed ac is king is it not? I would think every point precious.

[helbrax]

I did a test with a toon that had self conceal and dual wield kamas, and he had a naked AC of 41 I believe. As far as I can figure, as long as I can keep my equipment up to date, I won't have an AC issue, but I could be wrong.

[starlandra]

you are... 41 is nice but you won't be getting the 130+ a shield wielder will get...

Last starfighter avatar... nice

[helbrax]

That's true, but then again a shield wearer(generally) wont get self concealment either, so I feel I can take small AC hit and it not be as big of a loss as those without SC.

[chainlink]

starlandra said:

problem with that is you are losing 2.5 points of ac and ab that you could be pumping into your dex. Unarmed ac is king is it not? I would think every point precious.

Err why are you losing 2.5 points of ac and ab, I never said my unarmed monk didn't have Great Dex X as well. Have a look at the picture of Dangerous Dan on my monk build 134 ac, a decent ab and good damage output. Admittedly I've used Zenythri and have a couple of BUR items on him but I've worked hard to get them so I'm going to use them.

[chainlink]

helbrax said:

That's true, but then again a shield wearer(generally) wont get self concealment either, so I feel I can take small AC hit and it not be as big of a loss as those without SC.

Standard AA builds tend to have SC V as do a lot of rogue dexer builds and they use shields so that's not really correct.

[helbrax]

That's why I said "generally". I was actually referring to Heavy Armor wearing builds. It was a bad choice of words that made sense in my mind and no one elses ;D

My AA build only wears a shield as a last resort, and I found that some DEX builds do the same.

[cathedralmaster]

I'd go with self conceal - empty body just doesn't have the duration to take it's place. Empty body is good for short boss fights and that's about it.

As for weapon, I'd go kamas - the damage output of fist monks doesn't make up for the loss of the glove slot.