Heal and Discipline for Wizard/PM Build?

[Stupiddave]

I'm thinking about making a Wizard/PM build, and I'd like to have some opinions on thse two.

[gruntgruntson]

Disclaimer: I do not play casters.

Wizards' main stat is INT. This provides skill points. You will have LOTS.
Unless you save up some skill points to splash a class that has Discipline as a Class-Skill, you will be limited to buying 21 ranks by level 40. You can easily afford the points for this. It will not be too effective, even if you get items to boost your skill.

[starlandra]

PMs rock in places like Min. I love having one in party. (and the grabbies are handy EVERYWHERE

[gruntgruntson]

Oh, don't get me wrong - I am not saying PMs are ineffective. PMs ROCK!
But the Discipline skill could be difficult to get to useful levels. Luckily, PMs are not usually expected to be in the front line, making disc. checks several times a round, like Assassins are !
I'm not sure how useful Heal skill is. If you are doing spells such as Heal, Healing Circle etc, I believe it to be very useful, but these are not a PMs domain.

It is worth reading up on some builds (and the following discussions) on the Character Builds forum: highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds
www.hgwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Builds#Pale_Master

[alandrian]

You have enough skillpoints, thats right. Heal is quite useless for you. Discipline is nice if you take 30 crossclass as level 60. With +50 from items you reach 80 which is ok.
Take 30 in Tumble, some points in PP maybe. You will end up with a lot useless points because PMs can hardly afford to splash a class at 40 for class skils because they would lose lifeblight.

[dodrudon]

Lifeblight is bugged anyways (I've heard mixed reports), but it's still useful.

Heal is always useful if you use Second Chance packs...

Oh, and there's a rumor that if you fall between -9 and 0 HP, your heal skill plays a role in determining whether you start healing or not.

[Stupiddave]

I was thinking of taking Heal in case I ever needed to, well, Heal myself and Discipline for any times I actually need it. I'd welcome some more opinions on this, along with any suggestions as to what I could spend spare skill points on (apart from tumbling!).

Meanwhile, thanks for the input.

[borges]

stupiddave said:

I was thinking of taking Heal in case I ever needed to, well, Heal myself and Discipline for any times I actually need it. I'd welcome some more opinions on this, along with any suggestions as to what I could spend spare skill points on (apart from tumbling!).

Meanwhile, thanks for the input.

I gather from your post in the PM build thread that you are considering the popular 30 PM/9 Wiz/1 Paladin build. If so, good choice!

You should take all the Discipline you can (21 by lvl 40, 30 by lvl 60). There are a number of important skill checks vs. Discipline in the mod that can result in, for example, involuntary flight or inopportune nakedness.

As a PM, heal skill won't help you at all. After a very early level, no one uses anything other than Heal potions, which are unaffected by your skill.

Instead, since this is your first HG character, focus on skills that will help you explore and generate cash for your future characters. My first HG toon, a gnomish wizard, maxed Concentration, Tumble, Discipline (cheese monk at lvl 40), Lore, Appraise, Search, Open Locks, Disable Traps, and put a few points into the crafting skills. That's a pretty good skill set for both solo and party adventures.

Also, be sure to read the many class and spell edits. They are particularly important for PMs, who get lots of cool abilities and generally run around wearing heavy armor and shields.

Cheers, Perin

[cathedralmaster]

First off, you definitely want the full 30 pm levels for lifeblight. There's nothing quite like juicing yourself up to 10,000 hp in the mid ring before a thid run.

As far as skills are concerned, I'd go with:

Concentration
Tumble
Discipline
Lore
Pick Pocket
Spellcraft
Open Lock
Disable Trap
5 ranks in Set Trap
Taunt
Appraise
Search
Spot
Listen
Heal

In that order. On my last pure wizard, I think I managed to hit the limit on every one of those except for heal.

[Stupiddave]

cathedralmaster said:

First off, you definitely want the full 30 pm levels for lifeblight. There's nothing quite like juicing yourself up to 10,000 hp in the mid ring before a thid run.

As far as skills are concerned, I'd go with:

Concentration
Tumble
Discipline
Lore
Pick Pocket
Spellcraft
Open Lock
Disable Trap
5 ranks in Set Trap
Taunt
Appraise
Search
Spot
Listen
Heal

I think I'll run with that. Not too sure about the Rogue(ish) skills, but I suppose I won't have anywhere else to put them.
Only one I'd like to query is Pick Pocket - is it any less useless than in the original?

[atomicsomething]

cathedralmaster said:

Concentration
Tumble
Discipline
Lore
Pick Pocket
Spellcraft
Open Lock
Disable Trap
5 ranks in Set Trap
Taunt
Appraise
Search
Spot
Listen
Heal

If this will be one of your first toons, i would just suggest to put appraise higher in the order of priority.

[Stupiddave]

I can see your point... and I don't have any problems shelving Pick Pocket.

[Kazatel]

My two cents: Yes, heal is useless, lifeblight is AWSOME, discipline can get between 80-90, which is good for pre-hell runs, and since you're going to be INT based, appraise will net you a ton of gold by selling instead of using the mass-seller. PP is nice to have, but the dex characters in your party will usually have it. PM's generally don't need to worry about wasting spells on multi-heal baddies since you focus on insta-death.

[borges]

Pick pocket is very useful in a few places. However, since PMs typically wear plate + shield, you'll never get the skill high enough to overcome the armor check penalties. Leave PP to the dexers and frisky robed wizards!

Cheers, Perin

[Stupiddave]

I think that wraps everything up, thanks for all the help.