High STR archer

[Trazik]

I had a bit of an unusual build idea and I wanted to solicit some feedback ...

I have played a high-STR archer on another server before and enjoyed it (the character had Overwhelming Critical but nobody, not even tanks, seems to use this feat on HG). I don't plan to take Over Crit, but I wanted to find out if others have tried high-STR archers in the past, and try to figureout if this build could be viable.

Now, I do not mean STR-based; my design is still dex-based, but just has high STR and DEX modifiers, as well as evasion as subrace bonuses.

If my calculations are correct, I can get hell-worthy saves (barely) and decent AB (well duh, it's an AA with 17 BAB). Obviously, in comparison to the Flurry of Arrows build I will not get the high AC from monk + high WIS. Flat-footedness problems would be similar to monk-AAs I suspect.

There are several awkward aspects to the build (having to take martial weapon proficiency, for example, in order to use a longbow, and the fact that weapon finesse and rapid shot feats are not taken.

But I believe the availability of Evasion is what may make the build viable, since there seems to be no other way to get high STR and evasion in an AA.

Basic build idea: Half-Guardinal Bard7-RDD10-AA43.

With relative ease I can achieve a STR score just below the "mighty" level of Dustbone Bows, and with a few sacrifices I can achieve that STR modifier, but perhaps it is not so critical.

And so I would like some feedback. Does this sound like a decent idea? I am aware it might be new to HG, but new does not always mean viable.

Kind regards,

Trazik

[chainlink]

People have suggested a Str archer type build before but using Half-Guardinal does potentially open up some other options. Its difficult to tell how beneficial the extra damage output from mighty would be without some extensive testing though although the other RDD abilities won't hurt.

[kaldair]

What was your thinking on taking 7 Bard levels? Just wondering if taking just two might not strengthen this build?

Kaldair

[Trazik]

kaldair said:

What was your thinking on taking 7 Bard levels? Just wondering if taking just two might not strengthen this build?

Kaldair

I figured I had little (practical) choice but to level in the following way:
5 Bard - 4 RDD - 10 AA - 1 Bard

And then a Bard level at 40 for skill point dumping.

Okay, it does not have to be done that way, but it maximizes AB (at 17). 5 bard levels are simply unavoidable with Half-Guardinal due to the Lore requirement for RDD. There are subraces that provide lore (Salamander IIRC) at level 1, but they lack the +4 STR/DEX combination of Half-Guardinal, and the evasion. Evasion is what makes the build possible. Without it, high Dex is ... wasteful.

An additional +4 lore bonus at level 1 for HG is probably too much to hope for (it would make Bd2-RDD8-AA10 possible though - still 17 BAB).

One other awkward aspect of this build that I forgot to post is the bard Charisma requirement at level 1: 11 minimum is required and so 3 or 4 ability points get wasted.

Trazik

[unnone]

1) You're not going to be eligible for Self Concealment. That's going to double the damage you take right off the bat.

2) The physical damage that archers do is insignificant compared to the elemental/exotic damage that DB and Phleg bows inflict. Bows do not have a huge crit range, and without a crit a dex based archer usually hits for around 7 points of phys damage after monster soak.

3) Without monk AC, you're going to be sitting around 105-110ish AC. That, combined with no SC, pretty much means anything that gets near you is going to hit you at least twice a round. Str tanks get pounded at 120ish ac - they survive by soaking. You gain 2 from draconic armor, but lose a possible 6 or more from monk AC.

In my opinion, gaining an extra 10 points of phys damage isn't worth the sacrifices you'll be giving up.

[chainlink]

Not strictly true on the ac as RDD gives you free ac, however you will have lower ac than a monk AA and lack the SC or SC and ED of a rogue AA. Fire immunity will help in the Hells although as at least a couple of Flurry AAs have completed Nessus and my rogue AA is Cania tagged its debatable how much this is worth.

[atomicsomething]

Rolled a "Standard" Salamander Bard/RDD/AA. I reached 118 AC @60.
with a ur shield you get 134 AC. not too bad.

I dont think STR AA should be designed solely for bow. Well they may work in the right party, but overall you should leave some place to switch to Shield/Melee when the mobs flow is out of control. (Chainlink knows what i'm talking about ).

About physical damages, after looking at Mish hell log, i dont consider them marginal for AAs. I looked over Grij's damage and physical seems to be about the half of its damage output (In Maladomini).

About evasion, it's sure nice to have, but defitively not mandatory for survival especially with a ranged damage oriented build.

[unnone]

My AA carried a shield and sling combo for close quarters. There's no need to waste a feat on Finesse.

I'd like to see your build progression before I comment more.