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Post by synan on Jun 19, 2007 15:11:39 GMT
Okay, someone said that he's having lore at "max" once. And now the questions follow. As I'm a new player I don't know what "max" means obviously. So, what does maxing a skill mean, at what number is a skill maxed, 40ish or more? Can it even be more? I thank you for your time to answer
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Post by bort on Jun 19, 2007 15:21:42 GMT
Maxing a skill usually means putting 43 points into that skill by level 40 whilst taking a class which has that skill as a class skill. (Some builds take a level of monk at level 40 to max discipline and tumble for example, whilst others can put points into those skills whilst levelling as they are class skills for that build's main class).
Some builds will 'max' a skill to 21 cross class, if they cannot feasibly take a class with that skill as a class skill at level 40.
(The above doesn't include Legendary Levels)
In Legendary levels you can raise skills to over 60 if they are class skills for whichever class is your control class (generally the class you took most levels of by level 40). If you have enough Intelligence you can also put points into cross class skills to a maximum of around 30.
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Post by bort on Jun 19, 2007 15:26:16 GMT
Maybe someone can explain that a little more clearly and possibly correct me on the exact maximum number of points you can put into skills by level 60 (maximums for class skills and cross class skills)?
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Post by atomicsomething on Jun 19, 2007 15:32:52 GMT
Okay, someone said that he's having lore at "max" once. And now the questions follow. As I'm a new player I don't know what "max" means obviously. So, what does maxing a skill mean, at what number is a skill maxed, 40ish or more? Can it even be more? I thank you for your time to answer About skills, there are two notions : Your skill rank -> it corresponds to the number of point you put in that skill during character creation and leveling. in NWN, the max is 43. Here is in HG with LL level you can go up to 63. The skill rank is used for prestige class requirements (weapon master requires 4 ranks in intimidate) and bonus granted by skill (AC given by tumble is 1 per 5 ranks in that skill). Your skill score -> it takes into account your rank, your ability modifier, boots given by items and feats (Skill focus and Epic skill focus mostly). This score is used when you need to make a roll/check with that particular skill (Identifying an item depends on your Lore score for example). There is a cap of 127 for every skill.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 19, 2007 18:13:32 GMT
Except for open locks, to which you can add lockpicks. Funky
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Post by Yomi on Jun 19, 2007 19:48:04 GMT
Also don't forget bardsong which can add up to 20 to all skills, and prayer which can add up to another 3. There are also some special feats that modify the base such as Bardic Knowledge which grants a bonus to Lore based on Bard or HS levels. The Hells will also reduce skills by some amount depending on level. Lastly, there is a +50 cap for all bonuses to skills via items, song, and spells. The Skill Focus and Epic Skill Focus feats effectively raise your base skill so they are not subject to the cap. Maxing the appropriate stat for the skill is important if you need it as high as possible. Also stated was there is a 127 total cap for each skill, though that gets tricky when Hells penalties are considered. The d20 gets added to that, and some checks allow a take-20. As Funky points out, open lock also lets you add the lockpick value on top of all of that, meaning in theory you could open a DC 171 chest (127 + 20 + 24) if you had a +24 lockpick. To me when I say I'm "maxing Lore" I mean that I make sure it's at the maximum amount possible for my build. This is pretty straightforward when it's a regular class feat such as Tumble for a rogue -- you put one skill point in every level. Some odd cases: - Pickpocket or other limited use skills. There is very little reason to get this skill such that it goes over 29 points when you're fully equipped. Therefore if someone were to say they 'maxed Pickpocket' I'd personally assume they meant they worked it out so they could always roll a 30+ on the check, therefore always succeeding, rather than they actually blew 63 skill points on it.
- Splash classes with class skills. Discipline and Tumble are usual cases. This is where you wait until level 37-40 to take your paladin, monk, last rogue, bard, or whatever level, and dump skill points into some skill that is a class skill for the splashed class, and is cross-class for your main class. For example, it is common for caster clerics to take a monk level at 40 -- this grants them evasion but also lets them 'max' discipline and tumble. That means 40 points in tumble and 43 points in discipline, for 1 point per skill level. Without that monk level, the cleric would have to take them cross-class which would lead to lesser skill as well as a lot more points spent. So someone 'maxing Discipline' could end up with 30, 43, or 63 base points depending on their build. In common use I think the statement readily applies to either of the last two.
- Cross-class skills. My rogue/PM is 'maxing' Discipline, but it's cross-class so costs a lot of points as well as ends up at 30 base rather than the 43 base possible if she had a class that had Discipline as a class skill. I'd normally think this case would require some clarification since it is so different (both lower value and twice the points spent). If my str tank said he was 'maxing Open Lock' for a final value of 40, that would obviously be totally different than a dex rogue saying that.
- Important skills like Search, Disable Traps, Open Lock, Perform, and some others. Sometimes people take Epic Skill Focus in skills to give them a further boost. If you were a rogue brought along on a Nessus (9th level of hell) run and said you had 'maxed disable traps, search, and open lock', the expectation for that group would likely be that you had ESF in disable traps and seach, and your final skill with equipment but before song with open lock was over 127 (yes, capped at 127 but that extra helps in the Hells). Most of the time this isn't assumed, but especially in Hells saying 'I maxed Discipline on my Shifter' would get a question about whether that meant you also took the ESF: Discipline feat.
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Post by dodrudon on Jun 19, 2007 20:01:27 GMT
Also, Lore is class skill for ALL classes, as is Heal. Most classes have the crafting skills as well, though WM doesn't
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Post by synan on Jun 20, 2007 14:21:20 GMT
Thank you all for your replies, now I have a better understanding of the system. Jut one more thing, spellcraft is supposed to add to SR +1 every 5 points if I'm not mistaken and to saves versus spells? And is this true only for caster types or all? Where are these saves shown, as reflex or what? As I can't remember my reflex raising due to spellcraft. Please don't be impatient, I'm reading nwnwiki as much as I can to get a grip on all the fine details
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Post by bort on Jun 20, 2007 14:29:10 GMT
Spellcraft boosts all saves (fort reflex will) vs spells only, not against many of the non spell abilities that require saves in Legendary areas, and dragon breath of course, which isnt' a spell. That boost counts into the +20 cap, which can be boosted by items, bardsong, and a few cleric buffs. Generally it's not percieved as a very useful skill because of the +20 cap, which is easily maxed out with items/bardsong.
It applies to anyone with the skill, not just casters. I don't think it shows in the character sheet.
Also, if your spellcraft skill is low and gets reduced by curse or hells penalties etc, you can actually get a penalty to your saves vs spells according to how far below 0 your spellcraft is dropped.
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Post by synan on Jun 20, 2007 15:29:39 GMT
Okay, decided to drop the skill cause the RDD I'm working on will I think have a high SR as it is with 20 + RDD level.
Anyways, need your advice on sth. Starting my second toon, and thinking this one through. 8 parts fighter, 2 parts bard, the rest to rdd. Now, the skill points are a nag. I'm using HD white for the cold immun, but I also get -2 on int which leaves me with 3 skill points till lvl 19 (first rdd int boost) with int at 14(12 lowered). I plan to get tumble to 40 for the ac, maxing discipline and getting UMD to atleast 33ish for the scrolls. The problem eveidents itself when I tell you I also want to max lore. Not sure this is a good approach at all, but I would like to be able to id stuff. Anyways, from my calculus (which is prolly a bit off), I only get 141 skill points to lvl 40. So, deducing 40 for tumble and about 40ish for discipline I'm at 61 and still need to fill lore and umd. I think this build has no place for lore, sadly :/
Thought about ESF but I really have no place for it with all the ETough I need, and +10 wont do much good as I need lore to 50 to id lvl 40 stuff.
Any thoughts?
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Post by chainlink on Jun 20, 2007 15:46:25 GMT
Yes go one (or two) bard, eight or nine paladin and the rest RDD and that way you don't have to waste a load of feats on saves. You'll only be able to take the tumble to 30 unless you take a bard level at 40, not recomended for this build as you'll lose stat points and RDD ac effectively only giving you +1 ac. If you don't have enough skill points to spare just stick to discipline, tumble and concentration there will alwqays be others to id stuff.
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Post by alandrian on Jun 20, 2007 15:47:11 GMT
If you want 30 rdd levels you have to take 20 after clvl 20, because you just can take 10 postepic in a prestige class. This means you cant take bard at 40 for tumble dump. This means you have to take it crossclass and it will max at 30 point at clvl 57. Same with tumble goes for umd. you cant take bard in epic levels. Remember bards can cast certain spells from scroll anyway. If you skill umd you will make a umd-check even if you would be able to cast it without (its an old bug). Remember that hell penalties will applie to skills too (I always forget that).
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Post by synan on Jun 20, 2007 16:29:27 GMT
Yes go one (or two) bard, eight or nine paladin and the rest RDD and that way you don't have to waste a load of feats on saves. You'll only be able to take the tumble to 30 unless you take a bard level at 40, not recomended for this build as you'll lose stat points and RDD ac effectively only giving you +1 ac. If you don't have enough skill points to spare just stick to discipline, tumble and concentration there will alwqays be others to id stuff. Okay, what do you mean by losing stat points? I was thinking about going 1 bard on 40 to dump points in tumble. Again, don't understand the part about losing stat points. What's the diff tween taking RDD from lvl 9-39 and 10-40? And whats that about not being able to take bard on lvl 40, I got many suggestions to do just that? Oh, and why the concentration at all, what's the use if not being a caster?
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Post by chainlink on Jun 20, 2007 17:24:00 GMT
Err you do realise you can go to level 60 here don't you? If you don't I really suggest reading up on the mod before asking more questions.
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Post by synan on Jun 20, 2007 17:28:14 GMT
Err you do realise you can go to level 60 here don't you? If you don't I really suggest reading up on the mod before asking more questions. I do, I've got a lvl 42 assassin. What have I said to reflect such ignorance?
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