Bloodfire mage?

[Undead Monkey]

question about bloodfire, should i get 19 sorc/1 pally/20 rdd, or should i get 10 rdd/1pally/20 sorc?

UM.

[chainlink]

Your call, they both have benefits although my personal choice would tend towards the 29 Sorc route.

[Cimion]

Yes your call, but let me tell you a couple things to think about before you decide.

CC RDD will yield way more hp than CC Sorc, as well as give you more hellbals, which are actually pretty fun because they knock everything down and do a little damage to boot, and you'll get a few.

On the other hand CC sorc, if you get 29 lvls sorc, will get you better defensive spells if you chose to use them instead of medium armor, epic spells, lower hp, higher effectiveness with secondary spells like FOD, ice storm, gmw, and that type of thing.

My toon Cimion Firestarter is a CC RDD because I knew I would have a hard time getting my defense anywhere close to a regular caster so I got the hp to stay on my feel longer. Hind site though, I think maybe having epics is a better idea, plus everyone asks for gmw and it would be nice to hand it out.

Hope this helps.

Cimion

[Undead Monkey]

Well, it doesnt really help, it just makes it harder to decide infact, i have another question, can i get the large halfdragon after lvl 40, so when i go for RDD as cc, can i get large sized? Because i will hit lvl 30 rdd at lvl 50

[chainlink]

You will get the large size and the benefits that go with it at level 50 as the RDD changes carry on through LL.

[Undead Monkey]

So, if im not mistaken, if you get these lvls:

1 pally/18 (or 19) sorc/ 50 (or 51) RDD

you will get all the benefits of the large sized RDD with a normal casterlevel on fire spells?

[borges]

undeadmonkey said:

So, if im not mistaken, if you get these lvls:

1 pally/18 (or 19) sorc/ 50 (or 51) RDD

you will get all the benefits of the large sized RDD with a normal casterlevel on fire spells?

You can't get those levels, since level 60 is the maximum. So the highest tier of RDD bonuses that you can receive with 18-19 Sorc levels would be at RDD level 40 (character level 59 or 60).

Also, don't forget that control class RDDs get no epic spells. Granted, the Evocation epic isn't the best, but you can use a book to get your choice of the other ones (balor, wall, super-mords, etc.).

[Undead Monkey]

hm yes, but dont you have to be lvl 25 caster to use those books, or is that the same as a bloodfire mage lvl 19 sorc and lvl 6 rdd?

[Yomi]

Your call. They're both attractive.

A typical sorc BFM build would be 29 sorc, 10 RDD, 1 Pal. That gives you access to epic spells -- typically you will get evocation and one other such as transmutation (epic wall). For non-BFM spells, at level 60 you're basically similar to a level 51 cheese sorc (both have 49 caster levels), though without the necromancy/illusion foci your death spells like wail, weird, and FoD aren't very useful. Your thunderclaps, acid sheaths, etc. won't be up to a top notch sorc, but they're still pretty nice. You get long-lasting 65% conceal from EV when you want to wear robes, or displacement for 50% when wearing light or medium armor.

The RDD build would probably be 19 sorc, 20 RDD, 1 pal. You won't get the epic spells (missile barrage and wall/balor/contingency/starfire/whatever). Your non-BFM spells will be probably not very useful at all, with only 19 caster levels -- this includes EV, which won't even get the extended duration. You're going to be using displacement all the time for the 50% conceal. You get 5 Hellballs instead of 2. Your AC will be 2 higher. You'll get 60 SR which is not enough to make much difference in LL areas. You'll have a legendary bab 3 points higher at level 60, though the ab will still be lower than the worst PM-nerfed melee type (fully buffed at level 60 you're still going to be lower than these meleers that are complaining of swishing now that GMW's degrade).

With RDD control class you also have a choice of whether to take epic toughness feats. It's another set of tradeoffs. If you don't take those feats, you will not get any RDD benefits of level 20 or further including large size, fear aura, immunity to sneaks, etc. If you do take the 10 feats you're likely sacrificing charisma which means your DC's will all be lower. You may be sacrificing other feats also. Without the feats you'll get 240 more hp (so about 1130 vs. 890 for a sorc version, both before tensers) and+1 str. With the feats you will gain 500hp vs. the sorc version (for ~1400hp with an 18 starting CON), +6 str, +3 con, +1 int, +1 cha. The extra STR will help on discipline, pit fiend KD checks, and will raise your ab by another 3 points.

Edit: rereading this, it sounds like I'm coming off strongly in favor of the sorc version. It's the one I made, but most certainly not the "best" way to do it. Cataclysmic has at least one successful RDD version (with epic toughness), and really likes that style. They're both good, with some different tradeoffs.

[Undead Monkey]

Well, i supose ill stay close to the mage part of the bloodfire mage and go for the 29 sorc..

[starlandra]

just tested that with a atomie (lol it ws fun) and it worked pretty well... thinking of actually making it now.

[ZeroGravitySE]

What about blackguard? instead of paladin and be more evil then good?

[bort]

If you want your CHA modifier added to saves you'd need 2 blackguard levels vs 1 paladin level.
Which means 1 less level of precious spell penetration.

There's nothing stopping you from turning evil after you've taken the Paladin level though

[ZeroGravitySE]

I gotta get out of this roleplaying mentality sometimes it fails me at HG.. lol