Post by ultimabob on Jul 16, 2007 10:45:09 GMT
Lately I've been kind of fascinated with finding a way to make a truly top notch cc Fighter that has its own niche (iow there isn't another build that does the same job and just better) and that can do Hell's eventually.
When I look at the fighter specials, the first thing that comes to mind is that you need a lot of ftr to make them work.
Given disc levels at maybe 120 in Hells, for the Greater KD and Disarm to work you pretty much need to make a cheese ftr 38/1/1 build AND have curse song. And even then, you only get 3 and 5 uses respectively? Could they be worthwhile?
For trading prowess for stats, well, cc Barbarian and Paladin get 12 total FREE stat points in LL - you have to TRADE feats 1 for 1...
Edodge is nice - but more of a PvP thing as when mobbed it doesn't do that much
Crit Conceal - works best if you have 50% conceal already - otherwise, won't do much. Barbarians get physical 15% immunities and fairly long-lasting total crit immunity.
invulnerability - 1x per rest for 4-5 rounds? How useful is that in Hells?
Whirlwind - not sure about this. Do you Flat Foot when WWing? What is the range like? Perhaps this could be useful setting up other tanks for damage. If monsters have high immunes like 80% + then this can double or triple physical damages.
The fact that you can get conceal with only dexxers (self-conceal) and the fact that boosting Dex via EP prowess trades boosts both stats, and the new Parry etc.. makes me think that cc Ftr is best as Dex.
But I am wondering is *eventually* Barbarians simply end up better than fighters in almost any role (esp. wth feat books like the Imp Disarm book etc...). Are cc Ftrs just weak (or at least weakER than alternatives) right now and is it better as a bridging class to get some feats? Or can they be truly 100% equal (but different) to Paladins and Barbs? Are their special abilities for cc underpowered?
I'm not pushing for any changes - just trying to decide if Ftr can be made as uber as say Barbarian, or if for now I should give up on my dream of a trult top notch cc Ftr (that isn't WM lol).
When I look at the fighter specials, the first thing that comes to mind is that you need a lot of ftr to make them work.
Given disc levels at maybe 120 in Hells, for the Greater KD and Disarm to work you pretty much need to make a cheese ftr 38/1/1 build AND have curse song. And even then, you only get 3 and 5 uses respectively? Could they be worthwhile?
For trading prowess for stats, well, cc Barbarian and Paladin get 12 total FREE stat points in LL - you have to TRADE feats 1 for 1...
Edodge is nice - but more of a PvP thing as when mobbed it doesn't do that much
Crit Conceal - works best if you have 50% conceal already - otherwise, won't do much. Barbarians get physical 15% immunities and fairly long-lasting total crit immunity.
invulnerability - 1x per rest for 4-5 rounds? How useful is that in Hells?
Whirlwind - not sure about this. Do you Flat Foot when WWing? What is the range like? Perhaps this could be useful setting up other tanks for damage. If monsters have high immunes like 80% + then this can double or triple physical damages.
The fact that you can get conceal with only dexxers (self-conceal) and the fact that boosting Dex via EP prowess trades boosts both stats, and the new Parry etc.. makes me think that cc Ftr is best as Dex.
But I am wondering is *eventually* Barbarians simply end up better than fighters in almost any role (esp. wth feat books like the Imp Disarm book etc...). Are cc Ftrs just weak (or at least weakER than alternatives) right now and is it better as a bridging class to get some feats? Or can they be truly 100% equal (but different) to Paladins and Barbs? Are their special abilities for cc underpowered?
I'm not pushing for any changes - just trying to decide if Ftr can be made as uber as say Barbarian, or if for now I should give up on my dream of a trult top notch cc Ftr (that isn't WM lol).
