Demi-God - worth it?

[ultimabob]

From a purely power-gaming point of view - and not looking at it as a status symbol or the "point of the game" and a challenge - does demi-god status make most builds net-net more powerful or less powerful in Hell?

I'm unsure as to exactly what the Hell penalties are, and what exactly happens at demi- or at double demi.

I have heard many say that at demi you get access to an Asmodeus item (1 only) and +2 to all stats. But also that the Hell penalties get very steep. Furthermore, I have heard it mentioned that for many builds, the Asmo item and the +2 to stats don't actually add as much power as the penlties take off. I've heard it suggested that you have to build for going demi - or luck out in a build that naturally benefits from it - or going demi might actually make you weaker - especially as you won't necessarily have the perfect Asmo item the moment you demi.

An comments from vets on this?

[zerragon]

Id say that depends. I think some artifacts, together with the stat increase, can counter the
extra penalties that Demis must face through round 2 in hells.
For instance my sorceror, that got the ruby rod with critical hit immunity, will have a easier time
. No more "SMACK !!!" 'Pit fiend deals 1250 dmg to Zerragon'

Youll need som exepctional gear to overcome elemental penalties, and youll like a druid to come
with you most of the times.

Myself I enjoy the challenge, and I do it because I know it will be nice to have for future areas on par or
even harder than Hells, and wont hesistate demiying any of my characters.

[FunkySwerve]

It'd be a mistake not to demi. Tweaks planned.
Funky

[ultimabob]

Thanks for heads-up Funky.

As things currently stand, if the RIGHT Asmo artifact is so important, will people do the Asmo layer first several times but log before tag so that they can get the right artifact (can't use it ofc) on their guy BEFORE they get the tag? I mean if you get the tag, but don't have the artifact to counter the malus, couldn't that make it HARDER to do the Asmo run over and over to actually get your key artifact?
Do people try and set-up their demi-to-be using friends etc... so that they can minimize the time between getting the demigod malus and equipping the Asmo artifact they need?

P.S. is there a wiki or post anyone can link me to that describes the effects of Hell penalties incl. what happens when you demi and double demi (or triple demi if that is an issue?)

[Stormchaser]

is there a wiki or post anyone can link me to that describes the effects of Hell penalties incl. what happens when you demi?

This is what I have figured it out to be.

Standard Penalties

Layer	AC	AB	Saves	Skills	Immunities
Avernus	2	1	1	2	5%
Dis	4	2	1	4	10%
Minaurus	6	3	2	6	15%
Phlethegos	8	4	2	8	20%
Stygia	10	5	3	10	25%
Malbolge	12	6	3	12	30%
Maladomini	14	7	4	14	35%
Cania	16	8	4	16	40%
Nessus	18	9	5	18	45%

Demi Penalties

Layer	AC	AB	Saves	Skills	Immunities
Avernus	10	4	3	10	25%
Dis	12	5	3	12	30%
Minaurus	14	6	4	14	35%
Phlethegos	16	7	4	16	40%
Stygia	18	8	5	18	45%
Malbolge	20	9	5	20	50%
Maladomini	22	10	6	22	55%
Cania	24	11	6	24	60%
Nessus	26	12	7	26	65%

Basically, you start Avernus with Stygia Penalties after gaining Demi-hood (AB being the slight exception).

[ultimabob]

Wow this really hits tanks hard it seems. Do tanks get less out of Demi than other builds?

And how do Dexxer tanks in Nessus - on their second round - do as well as strengthers if they are -26 AC? At that point, isn't everything getting hit and you just want as many Immunities and HPs/AB/Damage as you can get?

Does double-demi doing anything special?

[zerragon]

Dexer tanks that cant resist KD have nothing to do in Nessus due to the extreme numbers of Pit fiends.
Ill never play my Dex assassin in Nessus, just port him in or something to get the tag.

[ultimabob]

I imaginethe dodge AC malus and AB, Saves, etc... all work under the 20 or 50 cap, right? So by going to say 32 dodge with song and items you can counteract 12 of the malus - same for saves, etc...

Still, would it be safe to say that demi-godding nexxus as a tank is pretty much the province of a very select few str tank builds w/ good crit immunity?

[alandrian]

Well first of all you should not ask whether you will be better after demi i think. The Nessus layer was one of the best and intense run i have ever made. It was a lot fun and very rewarding to beat him on our second try. Having fun and nice memories it worth to demi.

From the powerplayer point of view, what do you get?
You get +2 to all stats which can be nice. I played a shifter so the +2 dont actually benefit me a lot. Its +40 hp in some forms and +1 AC from wis. The DC is set to shifter levels so i dont benefit here. On the other side the penelties to immus, AC etc. really hit me hard. So i guess it would be better not to demi in that respect.

You are able to wear asmo artefact. Those items are quite nice, although you usually have to redo you items to fit the one you got in. On the other side it really makes me feel worried to have an item in my inventory that might explode when I pop loot half asleep. But well thats just me, hehe. A drawback is that you have to restart the helltour again. So better farm good items in cania first before demi, the lower layers drop crap. Or at least the runs I am in. Last three Avernus (No i dont call it Tia anymore like its Nessus and not Asmo, hehe) Runs when just the top 5-6 roller actually got an item.

You are immortal anywhere else except hell. Not that is really nice indeed. It helps a lot to get items from pyramids/Thids/Pharlan etc. if you still actually need them.

All in all i would have demi my shifter anytime because it was fun to do so. From the powergaming side it might not be that useful because hellruns really got harder for him.

[nohmask]

Can you add the DC caster penalties to your charts perhaps oh mighty stat chart maker ? Thanks, N.

[Stormchaser]

nohmask said:

Can you add the DC caster penalties to your charts perhaps oh mighty stat chart maker ? Thanks, N.

Hrm, that would be nice info to have. I'll test those the next time I take a caster down. Unless someone else knows.

[stonewarrior]

The only thing I have not liked since my DD becamea Demi-God is not being able to do deep layers...yet. I tried all weekend to get him Phleg tagged.

I have not had much of a problem with the penalties thus far but again I have only gone as deep at Minauros. I suspect it will get harder. However, I have no regrets for taking him to Nessus. I have but one other who could do the run (my Halfling Death) but he will never do it. Two reasons...I rely on him to pop chests and second I do not think he would last long enough to get the tag...even if ported in. He would have to hide in a corner under GS and I am unwilling to tag a character as a Demi in such a way. I had no reserveration of tagging him through Canai while standing back a bit as he was gonna succor in regardless for the chests but the benefits one recieves for beating Asmo must be earned (he has only "completed" through Malbolge so he has ot earned the right to Demi).

Peace, John.

[kaldair]

If I understand correctly the multi-Demi's still only get one artifact. So apparantly when a team beats Asmo that has Demi(s) in it then artifact(s) get left behind? =/

*cries*

Kaldair

[ultimabob]

Aight. Thanks guys. I understand better now.

Let me summerise:

*Currently* Demi-Godding HURTS the actual power of a character in most cases - especially shifters and tanks. It is more about a sense of fun and achievement than it is part of the normal power progression. So if you have say a first toon in Hells and are still stockpiling your arsenal of BuRs - using him to get BuRs not just for himself, but for future builds - then you might want to avoid Demi-godding your MAIN BuR provider - esp. if a tank. But once you are set-up in terms of being able to supply new builds, you should definitely do Nessus and Demi at least one of your builds for the sheer fun of it.

And also stay tuned as Funky may be making significant changes that might make Demi-godding alway worth it from a power perspective.

Anyways, that is my take on it for now and I'll keep it in mind as I near Hells (pretty close now) with my first toon. He is a tank, and even if he is set up for BuRs eventually, I won't have starter URs and BuRs for other toons, so I'll probably avoid Demi with him until I see the new changes - maybe even after. Thanks for all the info.

[Balduvard]

ultimabob said:

*Currently* Demi-Godding HURTS the actual power of a character in most cases

When they're in the Hells. Otherwise, it's all pluses. Going back for the third time with my AA now.