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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 31, 2007 17:37:05 GMT
I don't want the comments deleted, I only deleted the post.
I just want this moved to General Building Discussion
Why? Because thats what this is now, a discussion, not a build.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 31, 2007 17:49:05 GMT
I wanted a 50RDD build, and was happy to know that the BFM was adding to it. But it doesn't look like its possible for a hell build. Whats the point of building a character that would get spank around in hell? Tweaking the characters levels other then 50rdd would make the build not what I wanted.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 31, 2007 18:11:14 GMT
Move it or not, im not posting the build again, and I am finished with posting builds. I have never been to hell yet, and don't think I'm "smart" enough to suggest ideas without the experience first. I might be hard on myself, but if you had the life I did, you'd be the same way I am.
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Post by Yomi on Jul 31, 2007 19:53:15 GMT
Bur tanks should aim at over 100 ab. I agree with pretty much everything else, with even more emphasis on how few firebrands this build will get (what caster gear supplies decent amounts of level 5 spell slots much less would a tank want to wear?) and how ineffective the brands will be. But this seems excessive. My searching skills are failing me, but I seem to recall a mention that things are more or less balanced for about +12 over what it used to be. Based on that, I'd say any ab over 80 is at least doable even if not great. My experiences seem to indicate this doesn't seem unreasonable. Shooting for 90+ would be best. 100+ is the realm of AAs (barely even with BUR race and with a buff) and WMs. Also most characters aren't going to get the full +20 very often except in good Hells groups. There are exceptions -- cleric tanks can get pretty close and all the way for short duration, bards can push themselves way past the +20 cap, caster tanks such as a Wiz/AA using Tensers can easily do +20. I'll agree that a caster tank like this build, being unable to buff its ab, is unusual. A final ab of 80 with just +13 GMW doesn't seem that atrocious. Especially with only 3 attacks it's quite low, but it's quite a bit higher than a normal BFM trying to tank without all the str and weapon foci feats. |
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 31, 2007 20:08:33 GMT
I totally agree yomi
If I play bloodfire mage in the future, it will be the spellcaster version, because I really don't feel like being told "your build isn't good enough, so no you can't join our group."
I don't even see the point in 50rdd no more. Its almost a tease to make these unreachable levels, because you'll be so gimp once you hit hell.
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Post by Raj on Jul 31, 2007 21:00:36 GMT
my last tank is a howler barb rdd; bab 30, +30 from 70 str, +7 from various feats, +15 leg bab, +13 gmw ( now self buffable with malbolge toolbelt ), +7 ( 8, but now we're under cap) from mighty rage; long lasting sustainable 102 ab
a classic wm has 2-3 less ab from str but 6-7 more from wm levels; it needs song to keep it at top btw
Just for comparison, a plain, ''dumb'' level 40 fighter starting with 22 str ends at 30 bab + 15 Lbab + 7 feats + 27 from str ( 64, great str X ) = 79 ab before the +20 magical cap, so that 100 ab doesn't seem so unreasonable on a tank; the LLbab and LLweapon focus reduced the gap between tanks ab and the obscene AA ab
You can play a quasi class or some other hybrid malee build and lose some ab, that's fine, but you must gain something from the ab loss, hopefully dmg; bane knights get divine power and damage shields, staffmasters some solid bonus on the weapon, lashes have those immunity decrease on hit and so on... this build has ( had ) nothing to help the really sad ab; and 3 att/round w/o tenser don't work.
Here I agree, investing so much in a class leaves you with little room to play with and be original and successful with the remainin lvls; being tier 2 for LLbab calculations cripples feats-tight RDDs even more: those high lvl stat boosts are nice, but the investment in epic toughness is too costly
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Post by lala on Jul 31, 2007 22:37:47 GMT
An AB of 85+ will also work fine, just that if you want to use Imp KD or Imp Disarm then you will need the 100ab builds.
Something I am not sure you can do easily unless going WM that frees up the feats.
I am grateful that HG does not need 100ab to be an effective general melee as this forces chars down a similar route of 3-4 build types.
Raj do not forget that feats have to go to saves, etc, and as a fighter to hit that 100ab in reality you still need RDD.
Cheers
Lala
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