Stunning Monk

[kaldair]

I have a question that's been bothering me for some time so I thought I'd post it to the HG community:

Here's the info on Monk stunning fist:

"Stunning Fist:
A character with monk as control class who uses the Stunning Fist ability will force the target to make a Will save or be knocked down for 1d3 + 1 rounds. The DC of the Will save is equal to 10 + (monk level including LLs / 2) + Wisdom modifier + (Improved Stunning Fist feats * 3), capped at DC 70.

Whirlwind:
For characters with monk as their control class, Whirlwind and Improved Whirlwind improve at character level 41. When using either one, the monk will perform a second set of attacks, seperate from the whirl, in which the monk will automatically attempt a standard Stunning Fist attack on every enemy in range. Every enemy hit by the monk must save vs a DC of 10 plus (monk levels + legendary levels)/2 plus the monk's wisdom modifier. A level 40 monk with 10 legendary levels and a 50 wisdom would have a dc of 10 + 25 + 25 = 60, for example. Only one use of the Stunning Fist feat is used up per whirl, no matter how many enemies are hit."

The problem I'm wrestling with is resolving a Monk's abilty to hit a mob (famously low AB) with the high Wisdom requirement for the DC of the stunning fist. I mean, the example lists a base wisdom of 38. Does anyone else but me realize how low your AB would be if you put that many stat points in Wis??? If you can't hit a mob, how will a super high DC benefit you on the stunning fist?

I'm not sure I have a solution, however, so I thought maybe a discussion would ensue with ideas, or maybe I've missed something here?

Thanks,

Kaldair

[borges]

You're focusing on the wrong part of the calculation. Some sample builds that get a good stun DC are included here: highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1160038781

Long story short, the WIS modifier is gravy; you have to burn some feats on Improved Stunning Fist to achieve a reasonable DC. Also, I'd re-think the idea that monks have low AB. Damage output on fist monks is not the greatest, but they are tier 1 LBAB and receive free +1 enhancement for every 3 levels of monk (including LL). So a level 60 pure monk needs literally no buffs to have her max AB.

In a related note, can someone confirm that the DC calculation for the Whirlwind super-stun also gives +3 for each Improved Stunning Fist feat (rather than the standard +2)?

[kaldair]

Here's something else - the example says "... and a 50 wisdom would have a dc of 10+25+25=60...", which is wrong, because a 50 Wisdom score gives a 20 Wisdom modifier. The formula is "modifier is equal to +1 for every 2 points above 10". To make the example correct, the Wisdom would have to be 60!, which would leave the Monk with such a low AB I doubt they could stun a fire beetle at level 60 ....

Kaldair

[kaldair]

Borges you are correct on the stunning fist (first paragraph). I'm looking more at the Whirlwind usage of the fist DC calc ...

Kaldair

[kaldair]

Borges - where did I miss the Imp Stun Fist adding to the Whirlwind stun DC?

Kaldair

[Stormchaser]

Shameless plug, I have Stunning Fist Pandect for trade.

[AndyDeck]

borges said:

Damage output on fist monks is not the greatest, but they are tier 1 LBAB and receive free +1 enhancement for every 3 levels of monk (including LL). So a level 60 pure monk needs literally no buffs to have her max AB.

I've got a fist monk at level 46 now - Where is this +1 ENH/3lvls you speak of? The custom changes book says that it is +1 bonus damage per 3 monk levels and legendary levels for CC Monk, implemented as a temporary enhancement bonus - there's no true AB boost, though. The actual effect I see is a +1 ENH (which must be the hook to implement the bonus damage) and a +15 Bludgeon. It actually seems to come out 1 point high due to the +1 ENH, so 21 at level 60, but it is NOT a full enhancement bonus. You still need the AB of the gloves, or bard song, prayer, etc.

[borges]

andydeck said:

borges said:

Damage output on fist monks is not the greatest, but they are tier 1 LBAB and receive free +1 enhancement for every 3 levels of monk (including LL). So a level 60 pure monk needs literally no buffs to have her max AB.

I've got a fist monk at level 46 now - Where is this +1 ENH/3lvls you speak of? The custom changes book says that it is +1 bonus damage per 3 monk levels and legendary levels for CC Monk, implemented as a temporary enhancement bonus - there's no true AB boost, though. The actual effect I see is a +1 ENH (which must be the hook to implement the bonus damage) and a +15 Bludgeon. It actually seems to come out 1 point high due to the +1 ENH, so 21 at level 60, but it is NOT a full enhancement bonus. You still need the AB of the gloves, or bard song, prayer, etc.

I haven't tested it in-game in a while, but that sounds right. Curse Acaos and his tricky scripting ways!!! Apologies for the confusion.

I also can't test the DC on Whirlwind stun, as none of my fist monks have the feat. PAGING CHAINLINK AND HIS MANY ZENYTHRI MONKS!! Funky may also be able to answer the question.

[wnxhalfwingseen]

In a related question arent the stunning fists suspsoed to kd for 1d3 rounds now? also i have not seen that damage at all on my monk so you have to be a certain monk level ( im 14 and not getting any damage bonus other than my +6 for Zenythri )