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Post by chainlink on May 10, 2007 12:28:40 GMT
Human; Zenythri "Zenythri" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement STR +4, DEX +4, WIS +4, free feat: Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike, free feat: Epic Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike, free feat: Improved Critical Unarmed Strike, free feat: Whirlwind Attack, free feat: Improved Whirlwind 16 Str (20) 9 Dex (13) 14 Con 15 Wis (19) 13 Int 8 Cha Skills Critical four points of intimidate before level thirteen! Take Discipline on WM levels, take Heal on Cleric levels then take as much Concentration and Tumble (CC) as you can afford. Pre-Epic (12 Cleric 8 WM) Cleric 1 – Luck of Heroes, Expertise, Domain Death, Domain Healing Cleric 3 – Weapon Focus Sickle Cleric 6 - Dodge Cleric 9 - Mobility Cleric 12 – Spring Attack WM 13 – Weapon of Choice Sickle WM 15 – Blind Fight WM 18 - Great Fortitude Epic (8 Cleric 12 WM) 21 - Cleric Great Str I 24 - Cleric Great Str II 27 - Cleric Great Str III 30 - WM Great Str IV 33 - WM Great Str IV, Armor Skin (WM bonus feat) 36 - WM Great Str VI, Epic Weapon Focus Sickle (WM bonus feat) 39 - WM Great Str VII, Epic Prowess (WM bonus feat) 40 - WM Use Book Enchantment LL 42. LL LoH 45. Epic Will 48. Lightning Reflex 51. LL Reflex 54. ESF Heal 57. LL Fortitude 60. Great Str VIII Saves @ 60 all maxed Fort 66 Will 63 Reflex 65 Hells capable saves and all but two Great Str feats so should have a pretty decent ab. Apart from the WM bonus feats the Epic and LL feats can be mixed around to suit your taste. Simple but effective, wastes a load of free feats but all you want fron the subby are the boosts to Wis, Dex, Str and Whirlwind Attack. I looked at H-C but then decided I could do this better with Zenythri, prior to this Quasiclass I was struggling to think of another build that would be ok with this subby apart from unarmed monks. You could also go Dex based at the cost of some damage output/immunity but end up with a better ac and lose the reflex saves, weapon finesse would obviously be required leaving you with a spare feat possibly toughness? Starts polishing the large quantities of Sickles he's picked up due to bad rolls on loot splits  |
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Post by fragment on May 10, 2007 14:35:24 GMT
Another strengther - I'm curious how this works out, I'm going CON/WIS and with damage reduction Lvl 35 already - consider taking ESF heal far earlier, e.g. move the great str feats IV-VII one up and take ESF heal at level 30 - I would also build the character so that I can take LL reflex at level 42, and run around and live in the maze - but you might have better equipment choices and be able to have reflex 50@level 40. Same for fort save wrt desert. - You did not take the toughness feat. - WIS and DEX are both uneven, take 14 WIS, 10 DEX, you gain 1 reflex and lose nothing. Regards! |
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Post by Balduvard on May 10, 2007 14:57:20 GMT
- You did not take the toughness feat. - WIS and DEX are both uneven, take 14 WIS, 10 DEX, you gain 1 reflex and lose nothing. Looking at the feat list, I don't really see where you could find room to take toughness, short of sacrificing a saving throw, which is up to you to decide whether or not it's worth it (60 HP would seem a bit inconsequential to me for a build that is constantly healing). If you wanted it you could drop LL Fort and replace with Epic Fort if you really wanted to take toughness at L18, bringing fort down to 62. As for evening out the abilities, you have to manage to reach 19 wis in order to be able to cast 9th level spells, and make use of spell gear adding 9th level slots. Gaining +1 reflex does not seem worth such a cost. |
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Post by fragment on May 10, 2007 15:09:55 GMT
Ah, very good points Two feats/stat points could be saved if you were willing to cut 2 STR. Regards! |
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Post by chainlink on May 10, 2007 15:16:01 GMT
- You did not take the toughness feat. - WIS and DEX are both uneven, take 14 WIS, 10 DEX, you gain 1 reflex and lose nothing. Looking at the feat list, I don't really see where you could find room to take toughness, short of sacrificing a saving throw, which is up to you to decide whether or not it's worth it (60 HP would seem a bit inconsequential to me for a build that is constantly healing). If you wanted it you could drop LL Fort and replace with Epic Fort if you really wanted to take toughness at L18, bringing fort down to 62. As for evening out the abilities, you have to manage to reach 19 wis in order to be able to cast 9th level spells, and make use of spell gear adding 9th level slots. Gaining +1 reflex does not seem worth such a cost. My thoughts exactly when I was planning this one out, originally had Toughness in there then decided I'd rather have all saves at 63 minimum than 60 hps. As for the stats you're welcome to try and get them all even and keep level 9 spells (which really is a must on the Lifethreading time) but unless you have access to some form of non-standard mathematics I've not come across its not going to happen. |
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Post by chainlink on Jul 26, 2007 9:59:24 GMT
I came to the conclusion that the most important thing for a LT is to be up and active so I made some harsh decisions about my original build and tweaked it a lot. I'm sure the original will still function well but this version should be almost impossible to take down when its threading due to stats and immunities.
Human; Zenythri
"Zenythri" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement
STR +4, DEX +4, WIS +4, free feat: Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike, free feat: Epic Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike, free feat: Improved Critical Unarmed Strike, free feat: Whirlwind Attack, free feat: Improved Whirlwind
Initial (Subrace modified)
14 Str (18)
14 Dex (18)
14 Con
14 Wis (18)
14 Int
8 Cha
Skills
Critical four points of intimidate before level thirteen! Take Discipline on WM levels, take Heal & Parry on Cleric levels then take as much Concentration and Tumble (CC) as you can afford.
Pre-Epic (12 Cleric 8 WM)
Cleric 1 – Luck of Heroes, Expertise, Domain Death, Domain Healing
Cleric 3 – Weapon Focus Sickle
Cleric 6 - Dodge
Cleric 9 - Mobility
Cleric 12 – Spring Attack
WM 13 – Weapon of Choice Sickle
WM 15 – Blind Fight
WM 18 – Improved Critical Sickle
Epic (17 Cleric 3 WM)
21 - Cleric EWF Sickle
24 - Cleric Epic Prowess
27 - Cleric Great ESF Heal
30 - WM Great Str I
33 - Cleric Spell Focus Necromancy, Great Wis I (Cleric bonus feat)
36 - Cleric Great Str II, Armor Skin (Cleric bonus feat)
39 - Cleric Great Str III, Greater Spell Focus Necromancy (Cleric bonus feat)
40 - WM Max Discipline (swap this to cleric if you don't mind losing 10 discipline and then you can use the thid torch).
LL
41. Use Book Enchantment (or whatever you fancy)
42. ESF Necromancy
45. LL WF Sickle
48. LL LoH
51. ESF Discipline
54. Great Str IV
57. ESF Parry
60. Epic Fortitude
Saves @ 60 all maxed
Fort 61
Will 59
Reflex 59
Stats @60
42 Str
18 Dex
14 Con
19 Wis
14 Int
8 Cha
With the values you have here you should be nearly immune to most of the Hells stat related saves domination, kd, etc.
Discipline base 53 + Str + gear (so not many attacks should cause weapons or armor problems)
Heal 73 + gear
Parry (although nerfed somewhat by heavy armor) 73 + gear – armor modifier
Apart from the WM bonus feats the Epic and LL feats can be mixed around to suit your taste.
On the down side your Str is nowhere near maxed so you might struggle to hit stuff in the Hells, if you think this will be the case you can swap out some of the weapon related feats (LL WF, Epic Prowess, etc.) for something more to your taste.
You don't get the damage type options of a 20 WM build.
You don't get the big damage output of a Wis based threader.
Notes
Just checked and if you take 38-40 as WM you'll get +1 ab at no cost as long as you have a either armor skin, epic prowess or EWF left to take as a bonus WM feat.
30/7/07 Just to confirm my previous mistake, you can NOT use the cleric critical immunity buff as you are in a quasi-class, which means you'll be relying on parry to defend against criticals. Not the end of the world but slightly irritating and that will teach me not ro read everything in detail before posting.
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Post by Undead Monkey on Jul 26, 2007 12:35:48 GMT
do you actually have to hit something if you want to thread?
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Post by chainlink on Jul 26, 2007 13:09:13 GMT
Nope that's the beauty of the LT, you can wave your sickle around innefectually and hurt all the mobs surrounding you..
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Post by kaldair on Jul 26, 2007 15:13:13 GMT
PLease note that you do NOT expect to hit ANYTHING with your sickle. Period. Your original premise (Stay up to Thread) is 100% correct. I highly suggest you drop Improved Critical Sickle, EWF Sickle, Epic Prowess and LL WF Sickle. Replace them with save feats to get your saves in the range of 60 - 62. You'll also be able to take more Great stat feats. I'm also puzzled by "ESF Great Str IV", and think maybe you mean "Great Str IV". Kaldair |
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Post by chainlink on Jul 26, 2007 15:51:52 GMT
I did mean Great Str IV but I'm not sure about the not hitting anything as you will get a decent boost from Divine Power and you are effectively 3 ab down on a build that took Great Str X. I'm willing to give it a try anyway as my saves are not significantly below the 63 mark.
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Post by Yomi on Jul 26, 2007 20:57:57 GMT
You do not have to actually hit anything to be threading. KD, Timestop, and some other things will stop you threading so are to be avoided if at all possible. There are two ways to look at a LT, very much like how one would view a dexer bard vs. a caster bard. I've seen quite a few of each type.
The former sure looks like what chain's build is: it is built to hit things as well as thread. This is pretty useful, and I know my 20/20 str LT has a quite decent BaB even without LWF or a str bonus subrace. And contrary to kaldair's comment, he most certainly does expect to hit things. It's helpful to output a reasonable though not remarkable amount of damage via your melee as well as your threading.
The second way to look at it is as a build that stands around, maybe swishing to keep from being flatfooted, or maybe just standing around idle similar to caster bards often do after cursing, moving around to harm or heal as needed. Threading is done regardless. In that case, you might rethink a lot a lot about the build. You could go with 20 str and put the rest into wisdom or con, and get the same threading while having either a lot more time threading or a lot more hp. With wisdom you'd also gain a better threading DC. With both you'd lose the cleric crit immune ability though, just like a dexer LT would.
Based on my str threader in Avernus, I think putting those points into dex is a good idea. Mine did not, and I swear every dex mob just loved him even from way across the fight. KD turned into death for mine pretty much every time on that run., as once threading stopped they'd crush him. Getting any amount of conceal will be very helpful for Hells.
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