Thanks...but as usual I should have just kept my mouth shut
Well all I was trying to say was that like many other builds linked on the Wiki, both open sub or not, this build was obsolete. But it wasn't broken. Pure sorc is still the way to go imo and the only real changes "needed" would be trying to fit in some newer spells--to take advantage of summons, RG/Flense for example.
As for MS I really just fail to comprehend why anyone would have an issue with this spell for an open sub sorc build...it's a great tool for LLs, and provides an exotic damage type that otherwise arcane doesn't have access to, which is great for lowbie tagging. Just to give 2 examples, MS is really useful in Uro and DB because it lands on EVERYTHING, especially DB which is a great xp grind, and also can hit over walls/cliffs which is great in Uro
In Hells/Abyss MS maybe isn't so useful (kars MS works well on asmo as far as I understand though especially if you lack RG), but then I wouldn't be expecting an open sub build to be messing around in Abyss anyway, or even hells to be honest
A player with an open sub arcane should be focused on farming xp and loot for the obvious reasons, and after a better sub and more experience is acquired it's easy to "adjust" spell choices for better impact in hells
Of course all this is basically stuff you said in your build anyway, but I felt like some people just weren't getting the point so there's my attempt at saying it again
Cata I really don't get your deal from the start, I don't give a flying "you know what" about how much of a newb you think I am or how pro you think you are with pariah, it's asinine to tell me that pariah isn't a caster, I used it as an example because it is a sorc-based caster and thus deals with the same spellcasting mechanics as a sorc, unlike other sorc quasi the BK which truly ISN'T a caster like you say about pariah, well maybe you play pariah like a tank, I have no idea but either way all I was trying to say is that it's common for pariah and sorc to take spells that they may not use till "later" which in the context of the argument didn't mean "abyss" or "level 60" it just meant "after reading the evo tome"
This is a really embarrassing and shameful way to conclude a great old-school build thread. But have fun spamming Ice Dagger in Abyss, I'm sure that's a really really really good use of your time
Your sorc might need some better gear if you're running out of spells so quick that you have to use level 1 spells, I'm sorry but that's just hilarious...
And yes in case you didn't notice that was a joke, I'm sure your gear is amazing, the point is even for a hardcore non-demi WIZARD facing double rest charge trouble in Abyss I have plenty of spells and rests to make sure I can provide maximum contribution at all times by using the best spells, and come on I'm sure my toons have half your slots, this is just truly mind-blowing to me
Edit:
By the way, I'm not saying all this just to "get back at you" and flame you
(I know from your history here that you think everyone is out to get you, but coming from a guy suffering from similar problems as you, take it from me, there actually ARE other reasons for arguing with people than a personal vendetta)
I honestly think it's terrible advice for a new player, and potentially really harmful
To try suggesting that a learning player with an open sub PURE sorc build (read: bad defense) should attempt to close in melee range to cast a level 1 crap spell
Or waste their precious spells known on something like Brands or Ball Lightning which is NOT worth casting let alone learning unless you're, surprise, a BFM or DSM, which is, surprise, the 2 classes for which these spells are designed to be good for
Please don't try advising a newbie to waste their time or spells known or spells per day on bad spells, or spells that put them in a dangerous position
These players need to focus on learning how to successfully kill as efficiently as possible, which means memorizing mob damage types/immunities, and understanding how to position safely where they can function as the role the party needs out of a sorc, which is a mobile artillery platform that should at all costs stay out of harm's way so they can perform that role with as little interruption as possible
Maybe for your uber x3 demi pariah you can afford to do whatever the hell you want while your friends actually try, maybe you like to run around into the spawns and try landing level 1 spell touch attacks, but this is NOT a good idea for an open sub build with bad saves, not many buffs, and almost by definition in the hands of a player without great gear
Honestly you have made a noble effort at defending these spells but it's not working, not everyone has played for 10 years and can "mess around" for fun while the rest of the party does all the work
And yeah I'm a newb so take this how you want, but casting level 1 spells or spells that are not for your class (Brands/Balls) is not pulling your weight as primary arcane, which an open sub sorc player should be learning how to do
And Ice Storm, really, fine it has it's uses but I suggested Evard instead (yet another spell that doesn't require high foci to work well), and if you think Ice Storm is more useful or effective than Evard I'd love to hear how, please explain in what circumstances Ice Storm is a better choice than another spell of equivalent slot, or why you think it's worth learning for a sorc
Here's some other options for level 4 spells, some of which weren't available at the time of the OP, or weren't as good (evard):
--Vortex of Teeth
--Orbs
--Evard
--PK (sure it's low level but for a sorc with illus it will land decently on some mobs, and with no weird it at least offers an instakill option that otherwise is lacking)
now tell me you would advise a new player to take Ice Storm over any of those spells?
As for Brands/Balls, here's the same treatment for level 5 spells:
--Flensing
--Vit Sphere
--Cold cloud
--Wrack (sure not used much but good synergy with Enervate)
--Mind Fog (helps other party members + PK if taken, this spell is great even if you don't have weirds of your own to cast)
--LPB (summons)
now tell me you would advise a new player to take Brands and Balls over those spells?
It was clear from the start the build is very old and predates not only many new spells but also spell changes, no one argued it, silver was not insulted by the fact
Why are you trying to defend bad spell choices?
Yes it's much the same as what I did in my earlier posts, with one HUGE difference:
The spells I'm defending are still a great choice compared to alternatives
While the spells you're defending just aren't. Period. A new sorc player needs to understand the importance of making each spell they learn a good choice, in face of other options
Listening to you they would be making a huge mistake