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Post by thedomicron on Mar 26, 2007 1:59:54 GMT
ac and conceal are closely tied together. a few points is all it takes to make a noticable difference. simply run the numbers with a hypothetical situation: 110 ac vs 90 ab (so +d20) with 50% concealment, and 112 vs 90 ab w/ the same conceal. you could do even better and find information from logs and calculate, but golly gee my degree's in English, not math
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Post by Farang162 on Mar 27, 2007 9:49:54 GMT
Awesome... Flippin' Brilliant!!!! This is such a good post for anyone considering building a shifter. I've just got the secret subby Kenku ;D, and i'm gonna try building one using the wealth of information here. Does anyone have any advice on stats for Kenku (-1 str, +4 wis, -1 int). Is the 13 dex for dodge/mobility absolutely necessary or would it be better spent on con/int? Also, as Kenku get lightning reflexes for free, what feat would be a good one to replace it with. Again great post, this will be my first shifter and i'm really looking forward to it. Hope to see you out there with it someday. Regards, Trubble
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Post by alandrian on Mar 27, 2007 19:18:36 GMT
imho you dont really need dodge and mobility. Just keep in mind you need to take alertness with a kenku.
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Post by Farang162 on Mar 28, 2007 3:46:29 GMT
Thanks for the advice, I'll take alertness in place of the free lightning reflexes then... Sounds good to me... Again, many thanks, Trubble
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Post by aommaster1069 on Apr 2, 2007 10:44:10 GMT
I am currently being unique (don't know if anyone has tried this yet) and am using Dwarf - Duergar. It has free alertness feat so you cant go wrong there plus it has immune to paralyze and immune to poison. On the downside it has no wisdom bonus but I dont think shifter needs a subrace with a wisdom bonus. Turning out well so far but im only level 7 . Thanks, aommaster
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Post by cathedralmaster on Apr 2, 2007 17:40:46 GMT
At level 60, extra wisdom just means more ac, + to will saves, and a better thid brain zapper. (a form I rarely use as in each situation where I would use it, manticore or medusa is usually a superior choice).
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Post by Yomi on Apr 2, 2007 22:58:59 GMT
Before level 50 something, medusa and basilisk don't work very often in Ssith -- I'd be lucky to get one stoned. Maybe if you had a high level bard cursing it'd work better. However, at least with standard thri-kreen shifter, the mind-flayer form worked wonders even as a low 40. Whole groups of rampaging lizards would stop in their tracks, letting the tanks kill them at leisure. Yes, stoning them with medusa is far nicer, but that just didn't work for me at all in the 40s.
But in general wisdom will increase your AC, which is always a good thing.
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Post by violentj on Apr 2, 2007 23:29:02 GMT
I'm making this build tried to get everything I dont have any rare subraces so I just used a human con umm I'm on lvl 24 should be outsider shape but im only getting Undead Shape Did I do something wrong If I did can I change it so i can get outsider?
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Post by sabregirl on Apr 2, 2007 23:39:37 GMT
Outsider shape has a wisdom requirement of 25 (Undead has none). If you don't have the wisdom you can't get the shape you can just keep taking great wisdom until you have enough to qualify for the shapes.
-S
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Post by violentj on Apr 2, 2007 23:45:17 GMT
Man Im only one short how would you do it to like repair it
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Post by sabregirl on Apr 2, 2007 23:51:52 GMT
Delevel and take more wisdom feats? With no wisdom bonus from a subrace it may not be possible for you to get outsider shape at that level, but you should have plenty of feats to get it later, it's not a big deal.
-S
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Post by violentj on Apr 2, 2007 23:53:32 GMT
Its so hard to like use full plate with hardly any str so I put a couple of points in str just for the full plate. I thought that you could only delevel once
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Post by dodrudon on Apr 3, 2007 1:10:29 GMT
When you shift the fullplate "disappears" so you don't need to worry about the weight of that. Also, the shape will override your strength bonus.
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Post by kaldair on Apr 3, 2007 16:28:02 GMT
Psssst! Shifter secret! Don't look if you don't want your pre-50's shifter to rock out! 0.o OK - yer still looking - here it is then! Harpy curse! Having built 2 shifters to lvl 60 recently, the secret is - Harpy curse! Even at level 40, I found my stoning/stunning to be at least 2-10 times more effective if I cursed first! Oh - and don't forget to use Basilisk instead of Medusa before level 50 I guarantee you will notice the lowby mage Wail/FoD jump up a good 50% in effectiveness in certain LL areas if you curse 'em first To be fair - try to get a "real" Bard in the party instead - talk about helping a Shifter out! P.S. - Hells Shifter secret! You guessed it - Harpy curse! Not as effective as a "real" bard - but the difference between using Medusa or not in the Hells (at least through level 4 - that's as far as I've play tested this secret Kaldair
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Post by Yomi on Apr 3, 2007 19:22:55 GMT
While I agree Harpy Curse is a good thing if you don't have a mage, with this build you will be reducing their fort saves by 1 point starting at your character level 19, and moving up to 2 points at character level 56. While 1 point is 1 point and never to be shunned when you have a reasonably effective wail, it's not overwhelming.
A standard cheese bard will be reducing their fort saves by 4 points when they hit character level 40 and moving up to 6 points in LLs. If you do have a real bard and they're doing their job cursing, definitely let them do it as the first curse to hit things applies. As you said, enjoy the far more effective stonings you'll get with it.
Expanding on basilisk vs. medusa, Basilisk DC = 5+druid_levels+shifter_levels. Note that LL's aren't counted, so basilisk DC doesn't increase after level 40. Medusa is 5+shifter_level+LL_levels. Pre-LLs, this will always be less than your basilisk DC by the number of druid levels you took (8-10). But it increases in LL's and will eventually pass Basilisk.
I don't know the current behavior of the Stinger Priests, but before the recent changes they had very different responses to Basilisk, Medusa, and unshifted forms (when visting solo that is).
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