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Post by Werehound Silverfang on Aug 3, 2011 23:01:31 GMT
I think I remember reading somewhere that the bonus attack base DP grants is lost if your BAB is already +16 or great and you already have an attack progression w/ 4 iterations anyone confirm this? That is correct, and what they were talking about. You only get the BAB extra attack if your pre-epic BAB is less than 16.
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Post by gandoron on Aug 4, 2011 0:54:49 GMT
Tell that to the wiki. i agree Wiki is wrong, just tested this on a str bfm. The progression is standard, the added BAB attack is at the bottom of the progression, not magically at max AB. Edit: now the wiki is correct. -G
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Post by shardelay on Aug 4, 2011 1:45:25 GMT
the wiki is still wrong, but i dont particularly care and now we are offtopic, so back to GMW... i think it should have some effect at 60 as it's a slinger spell. Extra attack wont work, however, because we already get 2 bonus for a slinger with DP so that's maxed.
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Post by simpetar on Aug 4, 2011 3:55:24 GMT
Maybe foci in Enchantment could act similarly to damage weapon buffs: add d8 per rank to the already present bludgeoning bonus on bullets. It does look like a poor excuse to burn 4 feats just to get +4d8 damage, but let us face it, but +16 damage from enhancement was almost the same.
EDIT: I noticed that the "most end-game" weapon for slingers come from Phleg has Keen on one hand, but on the other hand it lacks Mighty property, while a number of easier to obtain slings have it. Was that an intention?
simpetar
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Post by fallenwizard on Aug 4, 2011 11:20:53 GMT
Slinger alrdy gets highest amount of bonus attacks in game, resulting terrible ab as it is, another extra attack would be "roll a 20 to hit with it"-attack Say a slinger has 95 ab. main attacks goes 95/90/85 bonus attacks from haste (1), divine power getting pre epic BAB on fighter level (2) divine power lvl 45, 55 (3-4), rapid shot (5), this possible extra attack (6) So ab for extra attacks 95/90/85/80/75/70 -2 from rapid shot so that 6th extra attack made at 68 ab! Personaly I wouldnt even bother with rapid shot on a slinger, -20 ab from alrdy lowish ab is not worth it on my book to lower all other attack's ab by 2. Shard: do note that battle cleric is different for this, to get Leg BAB of a fighter you will need those 3 splash levels. 4th splash level pre epic will increase your max ab by one, but doesnt affect on your attacks/round total. Typical battle cleric has 35clr/4ftr/1pal for extra feats, saves and to qualify for div power extra attacks. Same amount of attacks you'd get wtih 37clr/3pal, but you'd lost 1 max from AB. This is because if you go 17/3 pre epic you get 15 BAB, meaning you'll have 3 base attacks + 3 attacks from div power +1 from haste = 7, vs normal 16/4 pre epic that gets 16BAB and 4 base attacks + 2 divine power +1 haste. However divine power ab falls in the cap so your max AB suffers 1 by having only 15 BAB vs 4 splash 16BAB. Also Cata's 97 ab add's up with 0 CW if he has at least 68dex As for your slinger ab calculations, for pure slinger: 15 bab 10 ebab 15 lbab (divine power, for slingers as pure) 1 wep foc 1 greater wep foc 2 eic wep foc 1 epic prowess 3 leg wep foc 29 ability (68 dex/wis, as double demi not out of limits) 20 magical buffs =97 + craft weapon + pointblank shot extra 1 ab within 15 feet. Gand: Divine power gives you amount of attacks per same level fighter and same AB, but all the extra attacks uses normal bonus attack along with haste and so on. lvl 16 cleric that hasnt casted DP has ab of 12/7/2, when he casts DP ab (within 20 cap) goes to 16/11/6 + grants attacks of same level fighter 16/11/6/16 - if he also has haste effect on: 16/11/6/16/11 So wiki's 16/11/6/16 is correct, it isnt a real attack, just a magical bonus attack so it wont go 16/11/6/1. Yojimbo: "I think I remember reading somewhere that the bonus attack base DP grants is lost if your BAB is already +16 or great and you already have an attack progression w/ 4 iterations anyone confirm this?" Yes this is correct, base attacks are granted at 1 attack BAB 1-5 2 attacks BAB 2-10 3 attacks BAB 11-15 4 attacks BAB 16-20 So if you alrdy have 16 BAB there isnt extra attacks to grant with DP (untill CL lvl 45, 55). On a side note a BC with monk splash could get pretty nice amount of attacks, but pretty terrible AB 35cleric/1monk/4figther using Kama's and imp 2 wep fighting would at attack number of: 6 base (monk progress) 2 off hand 1 haste 1 flurry 2 divine power 1 toyshop boots 13 - IF toyshop boot stacks with divine power. so 18/15/12/9/6 for base attacks when flurry is on off hand 18/13 bonus attacks 18/13/8/3/-2/-7 Total attack progress of 18/15/12/9/6/18/13/18/13/8/3/-2/-7
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Post by simpetar on Aug 4, 2011 13:49:45 GMT
13 - IF toyshop boot stacks with divine power. They do not, period.
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Post by gandoron on Aug 4, 2011 18:04:55 GMT
Fallen,
I think you are correct. The "increase to BAB " is def under the cap, and I think the potential 4th added BAB attack is actually added to the bonus pool, not the standard primary attacks.
In my initial testing on my RDD, couldn't tell the difference between 4std3bonus and 3std4bonus , however by removing haste, I started with 3/0 and was raised to 3/3 instead of 4/2.
So the iteration ab of the 2 or 3 attacks is completely dependant on the number of bonus attacks...so it's likely high that if it was added at 1, but you are also likely to have haste already.
-G
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Post by shardelay on Aug 4, 2011 18:50:19 GMT
So conclusion...
the extra attack gained by getting attacks from a higher BAB due to the buff is an attack that goes into the bonus pool along the normal bonus pool progression... i.e. it is 16 in our case if we don't have haste and if we do have haste it is 16/11.
So in the case of teh lvl 16 cleric... naturally he gets: 16/11/6 With haste only he gest 16/11/6 16 With DP he gets 16/11/6 16 With DP and haset he gets 16/11/6 16/11
And, if teh caster is lvl 55+ then the progerssion is just like above except tehre aer an additional 2 attacks after the 11... i.e if ab is 100 it is 100/95/90 100/95/90/85
Final question then....
the LBAB added from a maxed DP and the BAB added.... are they both outside of teh +20 cap? Or is LBAB only outside and BAB is inside?
example: 37clr 3fighter were fighter is taken as lvl 38/39/40. BAB = 15, LBAB =12 Assume AB is 100 including +20
Cast DP - BAB goes to 20 and LBAB goes to 15. Does AB go to 100, 103, 105, or 108
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Post by maljin on Aug 4, 2011 19:09:03 GMT
LBAB increase is outside the cap; the normal BAB increase is inside the cap. So you'd be at 103 ab casting divine power. You can also test this with the !list ab command.
And slingers definately don't need 3 tier 1 BAB class levels for the LBAB increase. It's not mentioned in the spell changes but it is in the slinger doc and the spell itself ingame if you're using HGenhanced.
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Post by Torin on Aug 5, 2011 15:10:45 GMT
For Slinger AB: If the slinger is an Halfling (not that uncommon), the AB is +2 because of small size (+1) and Good aim (+1 for Slings).
My Slingers AB: 101-102 AB = 15 (BAB) + 10 (epic levels) + 15 (legendary levels with spell: Divine power) + 29(buffed main stat) + 20 (magical, capped) + 8 (4 weapon focuses + prowess) + 2 CW + 1 Small + 1 (halfing throw bonus counts for slings) +1 pointblank shot extra 1 ab within 15 feet
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