Heralds & Summoners

[woqued]

So. Heralds seem cool but are kinda annoying to play and lack flair, even with all their soups and concoctions. This mod also kinda lacks a proper summoner type, so making Heralds able to use proper summons together with their soups would be pretty cool! 

Example idea: Sorc CC Heralds using high level summon monster spells end up summoning Arcane Oozes whom enjoy their company thanks to them constantly feeding them their soup magics, and at lower levels summoning scaling oozes of different types; ochre jellies, black puddings, and such. 

Meanwhile a Druid CC Herald would be able to summon high tier elemental spirits of Water, Air and Earth types; 


Example AB Scaling of the summons: 10 + CL Incl. Paragon + magic buffs up to 20 (capping at 10+80+20 = 110.)

Example AC scaling of the summons: 10 + CL Incl. Paragon + Conjuration foci granting AC equal to 4 per foci, capping at 130 at PSF:Conj.

Their enhancement penetration should reach beyond 14 at PSF imo, so 2 per conj foci (+10) and +1 per 12 CL incl. PLs, capping at 16 at lvl 72 as pure herald.

For the soakier and sturdier oozes something other than ac should be used; such as their soak (+4/6 per foci, capping at +20/30 at PSF), imms and dr scaling with Conjuration foci and PLs

Special effects on the monsters: 
Gelatinous Cubes apply a paralyze effect on target on hit with a DC that scales with 10 base + some variant of CL and some variant of conj foci, capping at 55 DC at 80 and psf conj; 
Arcane Oozes dispel on hit and heal on magic damage at PSF:Conj taken (not as excessively as the base mobs)
Alkiliths apply an AB and AC debuff on enemies; Heal on Acid at PSF:Conj (not as excessively as the base mobs)

Druid CC summons:
Omnimentals; whackin hard with fire + elec + bludgeoning hits and pulsing Elemental Balls, doing minor infliction as they go about their business (2/4/6/8/10, 10 at psf)
Heck, maybe even summoning friendly Nishruus that grant an SR aura to friendlies up to 10+CL/2 incl. PL + 6/Conj Foci, capping at 80
A superior water elemental with a natural healing stream coursing in it granting it passive Healing Circle with CL of the Herald and heal worth of CL of Herald + 10 per conj foci. 


And yes, some of these summons look pretty strong but hey all the current summons kinda super suck outside Healing Spirit and maybe Death Phasm, maybe 1-2 others (and those are short lasting epic ones...) Having one class as a proper summoner would be great. Ship in ideas! I think 110 ab 130 ac is a fair amount for a capped out summoner's summon. Damages should reach something like 6d15 (without 40%) on 2-3 damage types, with Blindfight amount of listen unless the creature summoned is particularly attentive. 

Palemasters should be able to summon awesome death beings like Necromentals with crippling fear auras! Similar stat scaling to those of the above Herald types. 

Or are summons doomed to be ccccrrrrapapapap and left for fantasies in other games or to lower levels where some of them are useful. The summons archetypes and abilities could be something entirely different. Maybe there could be a questionable Summoner quasi of their own, the Oozemancer! The planar exhibitionist with an army of Succubi and Incubi! Something like that. Whaddya think?

[woqued]

Other cool summons for various classes that some of them may even already exist but really suck because of lacking scaling!

Lantern Archons
Different hounds like hell hounds but... less puny, those never intimidated anyone; fodderest fodder of fodders anywhere
Friendly neighbourhood dustman necromancers
Bonesingers / Falxugons / somesome (bard imitator summons - awesome!)
Health funneling summons (when summoner takes dmg, summon takes it instead; epic spell tier stuff for threaders n such)
Beholders
Eye of X - dispels, mords, makes what can't be seen seen; lowers concealment

And so on. The scaling just gotta be right to not be op and to not be useless. Some of these could well imitate the Hireling system which some called for, you do X run loot a fancy token/rod/item that summons one awesome lil thingie to help you out on your journey. Even Vestige tier stuff could summon things; but then they better be up to par to not feel like a robbery.

[Tru3Fals3]

would be nice if heralds got access to conj/enchant epics and paragons although im sure thats been discussed elsewhere

[woqued]

Feb 26, 2019 10:15:16 GMT Tru3Fals3 said:

would be nice if heralds got access to conj/enchant epics and paragons although im sure thats been discussed elsewhere

That would be here. They are more valid suggestions to making the class immediately more useful and interesting; this thread is more about twiddling the idea of summons and if anyone likes the concept of summons / summoners in the first place, and would have no place in thoughts and ideas; more fitting for drunken monk tavern  

[desocupado]

Well summons (and tanks) could use some on hit effects.
A tiger could knockdown with grease D.C.
A wind element disarm it's foes.
A fire elemental get damage aura or explosion effect like an azer.
Water could drown on hit.
An undead inflict negative levels or death.

I don't have any idea if the effort to have summons behave like that is worth the gain on nwn engine tough. But then on hit effects could be added to their gear.

[Deleted]

Reading your post reminds me of the Diablo 2 necromancer to some extent. I love the idea. As long as you could blend the summons with the spell casting to maintain the fluidity of the class versus nurfing one side into oblivion for the “new thing” I think it’s a fantastic idea. And I agree about summons that show up with meat, versus the fodderest fodder of all the fodder.

[woqued]

Yeah I agree removing the regular casting from heralds and deeming them forever stuck using one summon would be a sad thing. It would be intended to use in conjuction with current casting prowess; to give them something that works even without massive setupping and something of their own to utilize the stationary clouds. If casting was taken away they would require something to make up for it; perhaps beefed up versions for a meleecaster capability, CL scaling spells (Tensers, Premo, etc) for a formidable melee fighter with friends to support them - which also sounds pretty cool imo. One man frontline wall with a wall of ooze/golems, or various spirits to help with the morale and cast remove curses / break enhancements / remove diseases on the party... Something for the quasicastermelees! Baneknights with strong summoned demons, palemasters with properly powered up undead beings and so on.

I already drool at the idea; would give some sass to the groups which currently mostly consist of various crafted-armor small/medium sized humanoids and a melee shifter or two. Could use some more variance to the way party compositions look and feel thematically too, while the wings on some of them do add cool flair. Love wings, hate the tails.

Speaking of the versatility of parties and the aesthetics of party compositions; could be cool if you could reincarnate with the option to keep the appearance of the previous subrace and get the abilities of the next at a certain checkpoint in a toons life; we'd have third generation minotaurs, dopplegangers and kobolds who have some sick spiritual journey behind them for capable/more variance for build options while maintaining that specific "style" that you'd enjoy. One can fantasize.

[Deleted]

So, just another idea. Why not have the summon be the source of the clouds. And recast then? So the clouds move with the summon and are recast every (x) or something. A pulsing mess of soup.

[woqued]

Sure would help with controlling the soup since you could make it follow you, but sounds extremely hard to implement. On top of one summon doing multiple soups in the combination that you'd like seems tricky; even more so with the 1 summon limit. Having the summon do some of it would be greatly appreciated though; at least for the webbing/greasing part; and do it without massive visual effects for the less well-endowed operating systems.

Would basically be like having a pet thalassi. Sounds mighty fancy Always loved pulse effects.