Worst Class

[FunkySwerve]

Ok, I'm gearing up to do the LL upgrades to class abilities. This will also encompass sr edits to subraces to scale them with legendary levels. Please feel free to remark on the classes you feel are weakest/least interesting at present. Barbarians are on that list, in my book, for instance. Please don't post your pet class.
Funky

[fusa]

by far Arcane Archers are a very weak class. They have nice Ab, but a weapon master is able to meet or exceed htheir ab and have more AC, more hitpoints more damage redution, etc

[mishimayukio]

Monks, AAs, Dragon druid builds. The monk and dragon builds are both reasonably strong to very strong defensively, but are very weak offensively due to the crit range/multiplier. The AA has the same problem, but is even weaker defensively than the monk.

[Phantanya]

I think of all my characters....and you know I have a ton...my AA Seri is the most dissapointing. I love her high ab but find I get bored with her really fast. Needs some variety in either arrows, bows or perhaps feats. To beef up ac perhaps epic dodge or some kind of concealment could be implemented. Imbue arrow could be once per AA lvl instead of the measly 3 they give and damage could be positive or divine for LL. Bioware is really stingy on AA feats...all of them. Hail of arrows is only one per day. This would be great for mobs but with only one chance to use it ...it barely seems to make any difference at all in a major battle. Death arrow. Never had it work for me once. Not once.
Just my 2 cents.
Peace,
Phantanya

[fusa]

damage for an aa needs improvement too, right now crits at max are around 270, wm's 700.

[gruntgruntson]

I've built up my AA to lvl 41, and although attack bonus is very impressive, even with the special quivers i find it difficult to do significant damage. Special abilities are minor, as mentioned: ONE death arrow (Compare Dev crit, Wail), ONE Hail of Arrows (esp. useless angainst mobs with regen), 2 Seekers, 3 blasts.

Very little support from buffers (keen, flameblade, darkfire)

Overall, it feels like weak class compared to others.

[hiryuu]

AA definitely needs an upgrade.

I'm also not very thrilled with Dwarven Defender. A well-equipped Fighter or WM can absorb plenty of damage, and dish it out much faster. Rogue and SD are better at avoiding damage. Flanking-immunity is only a 2 AC difference, and Defensive Weave is cute, at best.

[mishimayukio]

I've also gotta say the palemaster is pretty weak compared to an equal level wizard. Even with all the extras, 8 caster levels over a pure wizard on necro spells doesnt not make up for the 34 caster levels lost on everything else, especially with the LL spell changes and buffing spells they are missing out on.

[FunkySwerve]

mishimayukio said:

I've also gotta say the palemaster is pretty weak compared to an equal level wizard. Even with all the extras, 8 caster levels over a pure wizard on necro spells doesnt not make up for the 34 caster levels lost on everything else, especially with the LL spell changes and buffing spells they are missing out on.

That's true, but they are also much stronger defensively, no?
Funky

[sabregirl]

I think I've seen a grand total of one blackguard in the time I've been on HG. I know they are able to smite neutral as well as good but it seems like most of the nastier mobs are evil for the paladins. Blackguards can't smite evil can they?

Just seems like there aren't a whole lot of reasons to pick blackguard over any other class, paladin especially. Maybe if they got something fundamentally different from paladins . . . granted they can get a nice summon but I don't think a single summon, no matter how good, makes a class. Seems to me the class must be rare for a reason.

-S

[mishimayukio]

Part of that reason is blackguards cant really use 10 CoT levels to max out smites like paladins can, at least without giving up a monk level to max tumble and get evasion. They also dont get those handy buffing spells paladins get.

[thurisaz]

Wouldnt it be cool if AA's could shoot multiple arrows all the time

[Ironfang]

If you are going to make over AA please don't make it based entirely on a Dex build. Wis based Archers are viable characters as well. As in the PreReq for a new special ability be based on having a high Dex.

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

I'd have to say Blackguard is weakest, then AA. Blackguard smiter is especially so, since basically no monsters in the game are good. I can't point to a single blackguard out there, excluding the bane knights - and they're bane knights, not serious blackguards. Even though their super pet is better than my dragon (results from pit fighting the two, fiend wins every time), no one out there plays one - since their special skill (smite) is simply inapplicable to the monsters.

AA is next weakest (and rarest) because of reasons stated above. They trade crit range, damage potential, weapon buffs...for what? Slightly higher AB, once-ever killshot vs dev crit or wails with a relatively low save...3x damage explosions that are *fire*, quite useless in a lot of places especially high levels...Seeker arrows x2, yay. And the mass shot is magical damage which is good, but its once, hits everything, and just isn't significant against monster regen, and kickback makes it silly. The only place I can think of that a one-shot hit-everything skill is actually meaningful is in the maze, to clear out red guardians.

Next after that is Barbarian. I don't see many of them either, and why be a barbarian when you get absorbtion/reduction from equipment, can be a fighter with twice the feats, or a WM with better AB, or a dexer with better AC?

Then Palemaster. Cool on paper, but death immune monsters that don't have neg energy weaknesses render a palemaster useless. Undead jump to mind. Wilting is weaker than other, lower level wizard spells damage wise, and since its necromancy many things are flat out immune. Death immune things cut wails out, circle of death, and death-function of FoD. Undead aren't effected by neg energy in general, and often their saves beat the double-save required for Undeath to Death, and then a palemaster can do nothing else to the undead.

In addition, since Tensers is not necromancy last I checked, they lose out on the +AB for one of the best necro combos ever - Vamp Touch or Ghoul Touch. They may have more damage out of it, but *I* will hit more than they will, since it is off of AB and not DC, their +necro DC doesn't matter.

And while their death armor is much much better than mine - overall, my damage shields tend to do more (monster immunities notwithstanding), and there are areas where that spell is a liability to the entire group, so its not much to hang one's hat on.

Put on top that they lose out on buffs, especially in the light of uncapped spells - and necromancy doesn't seem to offer as much as being a normal wizard/sorc with LL-Focus Necro, AND full defensive capability of other spells, plus the ability to shift to non-necromancy for other situations. Even if they go the armor route, they're stuck then with STR type AC issues, and no PM-oriented plate armor with spells to take the place of the spell-stuff they sacrifice to wear anti-damage gear.

Plus their dracolich isn't that much of a boon past 40. It may be a bit better than my dragon of uselessness, but not by much.

Bottom line - they're lovely on paper, but when stacked up against monsters out there, they don't gain much compared to what they sacrifice.

General thoughts:
In a power-uber-action server...people play what is effective, not what is roleplaying or pet-love fun. Because if they can't hack it at higher levels with a non-optimized build...then they stop playing. Diversity of skills and feats is NOT encouraged or useable here, and so there will always be some class that is weakest, and people won't play it even if its their favorite because it just can't be anything other than dead weight at the top areas. Which spawns the danger of ever-continuing-rescaling to make sure no one is the weakest.

I don't know what the solution is, but it may oddly involve altering the monsters to make the classes more useful. Like turning Ssithrak into alignment-good or something, or some of the new LL areas - smite pallies probably shouldn't be able to up and kill everything with smites for example, and then smite-blackguards would know they have a place to play with their smites, even though they'd be on manual most other places for example...

[Bakchuda]

Won't somebody think of the shadowdancers!?!

Come on people, how many of you actually SEE a char with SD levels in the 20s. I have one, and I can count on one hand the number of others i've seen.

All of the other classes mentioned so far at least have chars that function somewhat at level 30+

To me, if you have the patience (or brain damage, take your pick to be an LL SD, you should be able to become one with the shadow plane, with evasion on par with LL mage EV.