Min could use some loving

[drunkenboaster]

Before the hells were upgraded a while back Min was a fairly fun run. It was on the easy side and did not require a specialized group to have a good chance at a successful run. Because of this, more than a couple times parties I was with would do 2 Min runs before splitting. But times have changed. The run is a challange, and can turn into a nightmare fast if there is an inattentive player or two in the group. The loot is rather weak among the the first 4 layers having the least amount of set hell loot drops.

The way it is now, it is not exactly easy to form a group to venture into that tearful nightmare. It would be nice if Quim dropped hells loot of some sort, it may help to encourage parties to venture there more often. Another change that would be nice would be to remove some of the tear spawns, exspecially from the first map. Dis has no machines until the 2nd, perhaps Min could be likewise balanced.

I am hoping others have suggestions as well. Min was a fun run in the pre-upgraded hells, but is now very low on my list of hell runs I want to be a part of. Lowering the risk and increasing the reward would help bring it back in line with the other layers.

[chainlink]

If you're saying having inattentive folks on a hell run should be compensated by making runs easier then I'd have to disagree, they're not supposed to be easy! I do agree that Minauros is probably the weakest of the Hells runs for loot though as its the only one where the boss drops no tag loot or a BUR.

[velikibaatezu]

Yeah it wouldnt be bad to see quimath droping something other then urs , maybe some key item that will be needed later or whatever, but i disagree with part about tweaking its dificulty (reducing number of tears etc ), its fine as is dificulty -wise.

[zerragon]

Agree with chainlink and veliki, increase the rewards.
Difficulty is fine, as long as you know how to handle the tears.

[Trazik]

I have done (only) 3 Minauros runs, all successful, if a bit stressful at times. I am inclined to agree with the "increase the rewards but leave the difficulty" viewpoint.

IMHO there need to be levels (well, maybe just one) which are proverbial "bottlenecks" in order to remind everyone where they are.

[DragonChyld]

lol, I recently went on my first Min run... It was a sucess and I heard from several people it was thier first sucessfull run since the update. I made the comment that I will never go on that run again except to get any new toons tagged.. I hated it. Not becuase it was too hard, but becuse it took wayyyyyyy to damn long. we did the run with no BFM, shifter, or PM. It was a nightmare simple in how tedious it was to kill the tears with our mage. I also didn't see anything super awesome drop lootwise to make me wanna go back

I heard several other peeps say "Thank god I got my tag, I don't have to do this run again." Personally I think runs should be fun for peeps. It can be hard yet fun at the same time. 90% of that party has been though level 8. They all said Min is by far the worst of the runs.

~ DC

[bort]

Clerics can make short work of Tears, fyi.

[chainlink]

And Tears can make short work of clerics too

[bort]

chainlink said:

And Tears can make short work of clerics too

Lol chain.
True, but with a couple of xxxx rings and occasional use of a certain spell my cleric didn't die to them too often.

(self censored)

[stonewarrior]

I learned quickly to keep my DD as far away from the tears as I could. They don't hurt me to much...but the LAST thing I want to do is take a few swings at them.

I am not sure I would say Min is the run I dislike the most...as silly as it may sound I do not care for Tiamat due to the last map and Phleg "just because".

In the end though....more / better loot is always nice.

Peace, John.

[FunkySwerve]

If you want to prevent AoOs equip a missile weapon.
Funky

[velikibaatezu]

If you dont have mage/pm cool way to handle tears is to use energy drain as cleric, works best for pm but still, takes only few to kill em.

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

Once upon a time, everybody hated Phlegethos. It was the HORRIBLE SUPRISE after an *easy* Minauros. It was the hump you couldn't get over. It was all down hill afterwards, and all cake beforehand. NO ONE wanted to do a Phleg run for any reason other than being tagged.

Minauros, on the other hand, was EASIER than Dis, and was essentially a "farm this" run. Fast run with better BUR chances than Tia or Dis, and yet far less risk - and far less punishment for stupidity.

Times changed.

Now, MIN is the run that everyone hates. Its the horrible suprise after an easy Dis. No one wants to go there except for tags. Its the hump that its all downhill afterwards. Phlegethos runs are almost farmed, because people have more ways to cope with the problems, OR a better understanding with, and experience with, coping with the problems that come up on that run.

Eventually, I think Min will be...more accepted. As more people become accustomed to learning the ways to do it "safely" and successfully.

Used to be you NEVER went to Phleg without a cleric, bard, and some str tanks. Anyone who tried was an idiot, and had a hard time. Minauros you could coast through with an unbalanced party and do just fine.

Well, now, people need to PLAN ahead for Minauros. Yes, it makes things harder sooner, and yes, it makes new people to hells have to learn or perish - though it will probably be learn AND perish for a bit.

But you won't catch me saying, even as much as I absolutely HATE Minauros, hate with a fiery passion and feel its my least favorite zone that I will only ever go too when I'm tagging at least three people...you won't catch me saying "make it easier".

This is the Hells. Its the hardest area on the mod. STUPID SHOULD HURT. And careless should kill you dead. Mistakes cause party wipes. And thats how it SHOULD BE.

This isn't the desert. You don't rush forward and just MS things down, giggling in immunity or safety.

Yes, it takes time and can *waste* time when you do screw up - but, really, punishments should suck. And maybe if people waste enough time wiping, they may learn to take it slowly and carefully and work together, and maybe have a slower run, but waste less time because they win and don't have to repeat it.

I certainly wouldn't want to see areas get easier. The challenge is to make it challenging, but not feel tedious. Not to make it easier.

[dodrudon]

Phleg STILL sucks, as you said Delf, "There are maps, and there are maaaps" (and yes I still remember the number of As). (on the topic of quotes thanks for the new sig

ALL areas of Hell should definitely be planned ahead for. For example, you wouldn't want to do Tia without a druid. I don't think anyone's saying that Min should go back to it's easy old state, just that better loot is added to make it worth the run (though I have heard of "Min flags"....)

[lala]

I love them all as each level is pretty unique in the challenges they throw at you.
Some may hate Min but at least you will never be bored
Lala