The latest update and the 'Schism'

[Grudge]

funkyswerve said:

The dev crits are getting removed from everything asap, a little too mean.
Funky

aww, everything? :C

I dunno about everybody else, but I gotta say, this update rocks ;D. FIrst of all, its just plain hilarious to have your lowbie smoked by a dev crit you wherent expecting. Secondly, the mentality around here for as long as I can remember is that this mod doesn't really start untill LLs. Now while this is the way it should be, to an extent, i think things where being taken a little to far. Like it was stated before, Pre-LLs where nothing but an endurance you go through in order to get to enjoy the server. Just pound, pound, pound the lvling areas untill 34 then "Whoah, these drows just pwnt me! " Slower lvling = better chance to lean your charecter along with more lvl appropriate loot.

And on the subject of things being too hard for newbies, I think I've been around here long enough to say this: If you think all this stuff is too hard for you, imagine what it was like for the very FIRST desert/ssith/thids/etc. runs hmm

~grudge

[FunkySwerve]

Lol, the first ssith runs were before LLs were introduced, and people were already freaking out about the maze. ^^
Funky

[requiem]

I honestly like the changes. I did a DB run earliar today with my level 56 wizard. and it was no cake walk. Mages can no longer run around and spawn the entire map and absolutely eradicate everything. Tanks are definitely going to be needed on every LL run now. which brings more balance to the LL areas. A mage can still and always will be able to quickly annihilate everything as usual but if not played carefully they won't last more then 10 seconds. Creatures that damage me ranging from 0-5 a hit where doing over 200 on a critical. These runs are not impossible to do they are just a lot more difficult and will require more strategy and team play. I don't expect hardcore settings to be turned off. but probably in the next 2-3 weeks there will be adjustments to the critical ranges and multipliers from the monsters. so everyone just relax for a bit and take a deep breath, cause things will surely get better. all major changes will need testing and adjustments.

[fooflamfinnegan]

I've been on this server for a year now, and all things considered, I still wouldn't call myself a vet. Most of the things you do before 40 I know decently well, like loot spots, etc. After 40, that's an entirely different story. I just recently started making builds that could survive after 40\immo. My point being, there's more to this marvelous world than the power leveling spots like Farm, Temple, Rhaz, drow and all the crazy spots after Immo. Most newbies I've talked to don't know how to get anywhere, what else there is to do, etc. I've found some awesome items learning my way around the world that let me trade for other, sometimes even better items. I remember listening to a vet say how crappy forgotten forest is, when that's where I've found some great scrolls and good basic gear to survive on to my teens or just sell for better stuff later.

By making the game harder, you've made it so that people will need to explore more instead of hitting the same spots time and time again. Newbies can explore with vets areas that vets just haven't seen in a while. This is a good change.

Yes, this server is made for uber toons. But once again, that's a good thing. You can go on most servers and just throw something together that might be ok. Here, you need to think. And even without rare or better races, you have so many choices at your fingertips! That's why we're one of the best, if not the best (and I don't think I've yet found a contender). You've got more challenges? Fine. Time to make better builds. Time to think of new strategies.

Life is good.

[shadow66]

delfestra said:

Stop, breath, think - and for goodness sake, TRY some of the areas before saying "OMG WTF TH1S SUXX0RZ!!!1!!1!"

Good advice.... Bhao was right... have you tried the sissy bridge? I know I have ... that is why I posted about what my thoughts were on the new crits. Did I say? OMG [censored] TH1S SUXX0RZ!!!1!! No, I said the crits were harsh. And your idea, as Bhao pointed out correctly, archers don't care if your behind or in front of the tanks.... I was behind my tank, about what I call 20ft, and I was still getting targeted by arrows, quick thinking for me I went construct shape a few times to stop the crits.

delfestra said:

And remember - the DM staff can't fix things if they don't know what the in game effect is.

Hence my post about my experience on the sissy bridge. Was I bitching? No... I was stating what happened and my thoughts on the crit change. Don't presume that if someone states something that in there opinion is hash they are bitching. How else are you going to let the mod team know if you think something needs to be tweaked. By the way we did not wipe.. we went on to kill sissy. But that does not change my mind that the crits are a bit harsh in some places.

delfestra said:

And if something is horribly broken, it'll get fixed once the source of the problem becomes apparent. Take a look at all the work Acaos has had to do today, bless his heart (and his coding skills, and the chain around his ankle that keeps him at his desk)

You don't need to tell me how hard he works. Acaos has my up most respect for all the work he does on this server.

delfestra said:

Frankly, I think its a good thing that the lower areas are harder. Some of the best experiences I've had here have come from excessively vile fights. The Infamous 6 Hour Nessus Run comes to mind...

Thats your opinion and I will not argue that. But what you like does not mean what the next person will like. If I want to spend ages at low levels I will go play on a role playing server.

delfestra said:

TEAMWORK and party forethought is, and should be, more important than charging forward recklessly like an idiot, counting on your gear to protect you from your own stupidity.

Indeed, I've said it before: STUPID SHOULD HURT.

I agree... but on the other hand don't assume that when someone posts about an experience that they are charging forward recklessly like an idiot. Especially when they said they were CREEPING along.

[edited] Watch the language, please. That includes acronyms.
The management

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

Indeed, I was not talking about your experience in particular, but I was talking about the kind of recklessness that I have seen many people do, and what I have done myself on occasion, being guilty of "soloing" with my wizzy and a party of people in my wake.

Talking about Ssithrak specifically, I've massed half the barracks at once and killed both rooms together while taking near zero damage. Now, thats not going to be so possible.

And, you're right about the bridge, and how I haven't tried it yet. Again, I was talking *generally*. Clearly, archers aren't so bothered by tanks. And just as clearly, casters can reach archers from behind the tanks too.

If a tactic doesn't work, ADJUST!!

Indeed, in the days before BURs, when level 40 was all there was, URs didn't exist, rare immunity rings didn't exist, exotic immunity didn't exist, preservation didn't exist, Illithid plate/shield/items didn't exist, cleric and druid epics didn't exist, and your only source of cold immunity was Dachy rings....the bridge was hard, but doable.

Why? 'cause of people playing smart. Two sides keeping CAREFUL watch on each other's progress, neither one going past the other by as much as an inch. Kept archer spawns to a minimum, and made sure that if side A spawned them on side B, the side B group was right on top of them already - and vice versa. And mages grabbed everything in the center, who were killed last. And not by AAs, since Dusty bows didn't exist either.

I expect that tactic still works, since its designed to deal with the archers. I also doubt many people do it that precisely, because its been unnecessary to be THAT careful until now.

Of course, there's also the infamous Balor Run. That tactic is WONDERFUL against archers, and with a few heal potions PPed from drow and a shadow pack, I could wipe out between half and 3/4ths of both sides of the bridge all the way up to the Orb. BY MYSELF. And we'd get all of them if we had two mages and did a double-balor run.

There are ways to pick apart any fight on HG. One must try things and see what works though, and thats what this change will do - force people to re-evaluate the way they customarily handle each area.

Indeed, with the portions of the Illithid run I did today, and the desert, I was definately back in school. Its true I didn't hit the illithid run, but I got to several LL areas. Maybe tomorrow I will do others, time permitting.

[chainlink]

I still can't see how any of this is going to make it more enjoyable to play lower levels, how is it going to make me want to explore (not that I haven't been everywhere multiple times anyway)? Getting killed more frequently at is not a plus in my book although making it harder in LL areas definitely had some justification. There are two (or possibly more?) mindsets, folks that are relatively new to HG and want to see and do everything and then folks that have been here 6+ months (that's a guess at the timescale is probably longer to see all) that just want to get their new 'Improved' Rogue/AA/Bard, etc. to LL status ASAP. The big question is, can both of these groups co-exist on the server and is it possible for the management to keep everybody happy? Answers on a postcard

[bhao]

delfestra said:

Talking about Ssithrak specifically, I've massed half the barracks at once and killed both rooms together while taking near zero damage. Now, thats not going to be so possible.

you don't know that. i say, that it's still possible, and that it just got harder for the types people that already weren't able to do that before and that is just not needed.

Indeed, in the days before BURs, when level 40 was all there was, URs didn't exist, rare immunity rings didn't exist, exotic immunity didn't exist, preservation didn't exist, Illithid plate/shield/items didn't exist, cleric and druid epics didn't exist, and your only source of cold immunity was Dachy rings....the bridge was hard, but doable.

yes, and you had to walk to school through 20 miles of snow every day. you've been here really long. we get it. give it a rest already.

Why? 'cause of people playing smart. Two sides keeping CAREFUL watch on each other's progress, neither one going past the other by as much as an inch. Kept archer spawns to a minimum, and made sure that if side A spawned them on side B, the side B group was right on top of them already - and vice versa. And mages grabbed everything in the center, who were killed last. And not by AAs, since Dusty bows didn't exist either.

good thing you have stopped used that "stupid should hurt" phrase this time (it gets old really fast - might be dod's fault), because what you are actually saying all the time is "if it hurts, you are stupid" and that is mostly uncalled for.

Of course, there's also the infamous Balor Run. That tactic is WONDERFUL against archers, and with a few heal potions PPed from drow and a shadow pack, I could wipe out between half and 3/4ths of both sides of the bridge all the way up to the Orb. BY MYSELF. And we'd get all of them if we had two mages and did a double-balor run.

being a 2xdemi must be really nice and i'm sure, you've seen it all and long for new challenges, but that's no reason to tell everybody to suck it up, when there are legitimate concerns about the changes.

edit:typos

[shadow66]

Funky Wrote:

[edited] Watch the language, please. That includes acronyms.
The management

Sorry about that. I was just quoting Del from his post. I guess you should also go back and edit his post also as it was the post I quoted from and has the offending acronyms in it also.

Thanks
Shadow

[FunkySwerve]

Nonsense, Delf's 'F' clearly stood for 'frick'.
Funky

[shadow66]

bhao said:

delfestra said:

Talking about Ssithrak specifically, I've massed half the barracks at once and killed both rooms together while taking near zero damage. Now, thats not going to be so possible.

you don't know that. i say, that it's still possible, and that it just got harder for the types people that already weren't able to do that before and that is just not needed.

Bhao is right about this also. I just got done doing sissy again tonight and my pale ran in and wailed the rooms like he did before. Why? Because he is immune to crits. So the crits that the creatures do still do not effect him. Usually I would let my str. tank wife run in and I would cast after she was in there. She does not want any part of massing now and I can't say I blame her.

[shadow66]

funkyswerve said:

Nonsense, Delf's 'F' clearly stood for 'frick'.
Funky

What! Mine stood for frack... Didn't you ever watch Battlestar Galactica?

[thedomicron]

i think many people miss the point that near-death experiences towards the end of runs are a good thing, not bad: they make the game fun

[uncanny]

thedomicron said:

i think many people miss the point that near-death experiences towards the end of runs are a good thing, not bad: they make the game fun

Can one get a tag when dead? I don't think I'd laugh much if it's one hit that takes me from mildy wounded to dead just before the tag giver dies..

[thedomicron]

he already stated that they're lowering crit dmg. what more do you want? why not make it so no one takes any damage at all then?