Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 8, 2007 21:27:20 GMT
Unnone: That IS an interesting quirk.
Xyron: Well, yes, but we're also using different subraces. And I am concerned with the AB, since I'm intending to be able to disarm anything I fight, and overcoming the weapon size difference as well as monster discipline will need a ton of AB.
I might go as far as sacrificing 2 str for 2 con, making final str 52/64, and con 18(30). I think I mentioned that someplace. Toughness is also in there, obviously.
Acaos: Was the weapon size penalties Xyron mentioned taken into account during class creation? Unlike WMs, Lash always has the small weapon, and can't choose to be a large weapon user. Could it be possible to make the Lash disc lowering duration 3 rounds, so that we can have a better chance to beat them down into penalties, instead of just fighting to reduce their weapon size bonus down to even odds?
I'm build a FA version of the Lasher with control class for ranger and Bane of enemies. for 5 racial groups and 25% debuff. After looking over the build and compairing it to yours I think I should follow you design and CC Bg instead since the Debuff isn't including LL (assumed based on description), but the extra lash damage does. Besides my 5th racial group was dragon which I though was far fetched to debuff anyway. 4 still covers most of the mobs on HG.
Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 9, 2007 18:43:53 GMT
Does the Lash of Hatred vulnerability infliction include Legendary Levels if control class is blackguard?
Aka would a 15 rang / 24 bg / 1 monk +20 BG lls have a -26% or a -46% to enemy defenses?
The book says 'blackguard class levels'; legendary levels are not levels in a particular class.
Your maximum would be 26%.
Confirmed by Acaos. You're quite right that BG levels are not included.
Indeed, I'm even considering lowering the build to 12 levels of ranger, 2 rogue levels (for UMD and tumble ) and 26 BG levels for 28% debuff, and a level of improved sneak attack.
I wracked my brains to think of what four enemies I would pick for 15 bg...Outsiders, Abberations are obvious choices for Hell/Beholders/Illithids. I decided to go with Undead for the 3rd, since it'd help with leveling *and* effect the end fight at the Pyramid.
But really, what would a good fourth be? Dragons wouldn't hurt, but wouldn't be great. Elementals perhaps? They're underused, and with the new turning modifications, I wouldn't be suprised if we saw an elemental zone...especially for artifacts.
Constructs is another option, though you don't want to be hitting the Machines normally. Seems like there might be some other constructs that you could hit though. Ssithrack's, for one area for sure. I'm not sure what some of the more human-looking creatures in the hells are, but Humans or Monstrous Humans might work too, if they match one of those groups. More likely they're Outsiders or Abberations though. So Elementals is probably better than either of those two.
Hmm. I wonder if the DMs took weapon size into account for improved disarm purposes when making the quasiclass? If not, I'd ask them to increase the -2 discipline function to 3, or even 4, rounds...so I could beat it up a round or so and get back down to even odds, before trying to debuff it and bring it into disarm success range.
Hells Discipline, apparently, makes Mish's WM say "I need a bard to hit this with Disarm".
The Lash Discipline penalty stacks with Bard Song.
That may well be but my WM is using a medium weapon with AB up to 87 with +14 GMW and song. A lash will have at most 73-78 AB with a small weapon.
Great build Delf, I often wondered about using smites in this quassi, and you made it work. I think I will have to redo mine again to incorporate smiting into the build as smiting can have some great samge output combine with fav enemy debuffing
Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 20, 2007 7:31:00 GMT
Mish is completely correct.
And, indeed, not all undead are truly 100% immune to negative energy. Some Rhazid critters for instance. That was a wacky quirk I noticed on the way up.
Also, I picked it because I felt it would be useful in the pyramid, and while leveling up...moreso than any other race I could pick. There are good arguments to be made for choosing dragons over undead, or even constructs, but it depends on where you expect to spend most of your time I believe.
I've been thinking about do a lash, since it seems a bit like I'm fated to do one. Have almost all the lashes from the lvl 20 to the hells one and quite a bit of ranger gear. ;D This thread gave me quite a few good pointers on it, thanks
Regarding favored enemies, anybody knows in what categories do the hell beasties fall on? I mean the bezekiras, advespas, Arachyls and whatnot. I mean, I can see them as either outsiders, aberrations or magical beasts and would rather not get to lvl 55 before discovering that "Oh, they were outsiders after all, and I wasted one Favored Enemy"
Anyway, thanks for sharing your build. Hope you meet success with it.