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Post by kaezar on Apr 12, 2010 14:05:06 GMT
Had this idea some two weeks ago, and have been thinking about it on and off since them.
Make longswords piercing/slashing weapons, like morning stars are bludgeoning/piercing.
Currently there is no real reason to go longsword over, say, scimitar. Both are Martial weapons, and scimitars have better critical range.
If possible, the change would bring another dimension of build choices. One could get a better critical ranger (scimmy) or a variety of damage types (Longsword) or go one step further and get better damage (bastard sword).
Take care Kaezar
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Post by starlandra on Apr 12, 2010 14:22:16 GMT
personally I would love an excuse to make a longsword toon, but kaez hit it on the head. Longswords have long be the mainstay of D&D and it would be nice if they were viable here as well, but the poor crit range AND crit modifier just make them plain unattractive. If they had 2 damage types I would definitely use them.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 12, 2010 15:32:43 GMT
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Post by Trazik on Apr 12, 2010 15:40:32 GMT
I have seen that spreadsheet before. But I am uncertain how to interpret the numbers. Any clarification (from anyone) would be helpful.
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Post by gandoron on Apr 12, 2010 16:37:29 GMT
The sheet uses the lowest damage weapon as a base factor, assassin dagger with 5 iteration (meaning that new attacks are added every 5 ab).
This creates a baseline damage, then all weapons and crit range feats are comparable against each other. Not this doesn't take into consideration damage type p/s/b and what the monster might take, I also don't believe they have a damage +% adjustment for weapons with 2 types of physical damage.
Iterations changes will be interesting...there will be a LOT of reincs.
Also, I don't believe this chart takes crit confirmation into consideration, which gives additional value to weapons that trade off crit range for crit multiplier. Of course, this varies depending on AB-AC difference and on pwr/sup crit. I have a spreadsheet that calculates all this that I'm planning on posting when it's done.
-G
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Post by Trazik on Apr 12, 2010 16:52:00 GMT
Well, one of my reasons for asking is that I am not certain how to answer the question:
What is better (ignoring monster damage immunities): - superior critical and epic weapon specialization in 2 weapons, or - superior critical, epic weapon specialization and devastating critical in 1 weapon
Let's assume that in example 1, the dex is extremely high and str is extremely low, and that in example 2, the str is the minimum to get dev crit and the dex is whatever is left over. And the build is a double-demi dex fighter using either dex or str arti.
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Post by MightyKhan on Apr 12, 2010 17:00:10 GMT
one thing that concerns me is the effect these changes will have on my favourite toon, namely my RDD. urrently, my RDD greatsword is equal to bastard sword on that sheet: 2.05 (i have DC) however, when greatsword is reverted back to 19-20/x2, I would definitely burn a feat to get the x3 back - oh but wait, if I choose to focus in bastard sword, I loose half my strength mod!
large sized toons have a lot less weaponry to choose from. the only exotic large weapon is scythe, not really a weapon comparable to great/bastard sword. use a double weapon? last time I checked, using a doubleweapon in 1 hand still gave me a -2 AB penalty.. (this was with a shapestrong barbarian who turned large, then equipped a doubleaxe and started bashing)
so.. what weapon options would be left for my RDD .. or my juggernaut .. or my maelephant .. (etc)
.. when compared to my medium sized toon? medium toons get longsword, and can burn a feat for bastard swords. large toons get .. "longswords" only.
possible solution? 1/2 str mod for weapons 2 size categories smaller. ie tiny for medium and small for large.
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Post by pete on Apr 12, 2010 17:08:17 GMT
with regard to the iterations:
if i had a 20 pre-epic BAB with a 3 iteration weapon, would it have 7 attacks/round? 20/17/14/11/8/5/2 would a 6 iteration weapon have 4 attacks? 20/14/8/2
then extra attacks from hast/spells/class abilities
how will offhand attacks be affected?
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Post by MightyKhan on Apr 12, 2010 17:20:15 GMT
that would be the idea yes (although I think monks are limited to 6 attacks atm, not 7)
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Post by starlandra on Apr 12, 2010 18:53:31 GMT
I am sorry but that chart completely confuses me... can you translate it for like 3 different types of weapons? If you did I could probably make out rest. I know it is a bother, but that chart has been gibberish to me since the first day you posted it, and I would really like to take advantage of it now, so as I redo my current toons I won't have to redo them again after this is implemented.
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Post by drunkenboaster on Apr 12, 2010 19:21:18 GMT
A 7 iteration means an attack at 1, 8, 15 A 6 iteration means an attack at 1, 7, 13, 19 A 5 iteration means an attack at 1, 6, 11, 16 A 4 iteration means an attack at 1, 5, 9, 13, 17 A 3 iteration means an attack at 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19
Offhand would always be one more, two with improved two weapon fighting. I would assume that the off hand progression would follow the base weapon iteration.
Extra attacks always start with highest ab and work down the iteration progression. So a hasted level 55 tensors user with 100 ab would have attacks of 100, 95, 90, 85, 100, 95, 90.
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Post by starlandra on Apr 12, 2010 19:39:37 GMT
so then a kukri will get 5 base attacks versus a rapiers 4 (which makes a lot more sense since it is an exotic weap) but its crit range will be reduced by 1 (19-20 instead of 18-20) and it's multiplier dropped from x2 to x1.5... I suppose we would need to redo the math completely (well dumb min/maxers like me ) on number of attacks versus crit range etc... Now if I read what you posted correctly it will also effect the base ab's. Meaning Battle Axes (6) will have a -3 ab disadvantage over a longsword (5). Granted they have a x4 mod vs the long swords x2 so there are balance issue to look at. There is just so much more to think on now! (and a huge THANK YOU DB... your the best)
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Post by starlandra on Apr 12, 2010 19:41:23 GMT
also I only see quarterstaff on the list once with a (5) iteration, I assume that is an oversight, or is the staff monk about to get nerfed? ah I see it in light gray now nevermind
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Post by gandoron on Apr 12, 2010 20:50:44 GMT
db, you have 7 attacks for a 19 BAB 3 iteration build. Is the engine hard capped at 6 prim attacks, or can you get 7 now? (a 19BAB monk build would get 7 now if it's important).
The HG engine currently is still under the 6 attack prim hand cap. a 19 BAB monk build that should get 7 prim hand attacks normally only gets 6. Flurry counts as a bonus attack.
Wonder if there are plans to fix this.
-G
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Post by gandoron on Apr 12, 2010 22:16:11 GMT
Also all the large Martial weapons get owned by those changes. All 3 get reduced significantly.
-G
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