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Post by leezard on May 12, 2010 16:55:51 GMT
just doing a reinc and thought id put this out there and see what the comunity thought maybe git some one to run the numbers for me
Base Race: Human Sub Race: Half-celestial Stat Mods: +6 Wisdom +4 Charisma
Starting Stats ST14 / 14 DX 8 / 8 IN 8 / 8 CO 8 / 8 WI 18 / 24 CH 15 / 19
All stats go to Charisma
Tumble -60 ( lsa tumble dump )
Discipline - Max hpoefully
Acquire an instrument from the harp for divine inspiration
lvl 1-9 cleric 1 Blooded, 9.blind fight), Evil Domain, plant Domain 3 ......power attack
6 .. cleave 9 rapier wit....Hide+5............
10cleric level
11 Blackguard - all remaining levels BG 12 Weapon focus rapier 15 .........gwf
18 ....divine shield (or might undecided atm)
21 Great wis 1 23 epic focus rapier 24 ...Great Charisma 1............................... 26 epic prowess 27 Great Charisma 2 29 ......planar turning 30 Great Charisma 3 32 .....smite 33 Great Charisma 4 35 .....smite........................... 36 Great Charisma 5 38 ....smite........... 39 Great Charisma 6 str 14 dex8 con8 int8 wis25 cha 35 Read spell pen tome ( helpful with turning constructs )
42 CHR+1, Great Charisma 7 44 CHR+1 45 Great Charisma 8 46 CHR+1 48 CHR+1, LSA tumble 50 CHR+1 52 CHR+1, Destruction Domain 54 CHR+1, Sun Domain 56 CHR+1 57 elemental Domain 58 CHR+1 60 CHR+ 1 , Greater charisma 9
*Legendary Blackguards gain +1 per 5 legendary levels to Strength and Charisma.
Stats @ 60 double demi / with plus 14 gear ST 22 / 36 DX 12 / 26 IN 12 / 26 CO 12 / 26 WI 29 / 43 CH 56 / 70
emphasis on this was to be a turner tanking came second but I'm looking at using some bur bracers for dual wield feats and using divine shield for the extra ac vs going with rapier and shield with divine might for more damage, let me know what ya think
*Inspired by Ford Prefects BG turners
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Post by Onyx [SL] on May 17, 2010 8:49:20 GMT
Just curious on how many turns you'll be able to get with this build (extra turning feat or item with it would help) plus I would go divine shield since your AB is so low. If your not going to be a tank you need to throw all your build into be a turning machine. I like ford perfects build though of throwing in Monk for evade, WIS AC ect plus taking enough cleric levels to being able to cast Gate. Gate is one of the most powerful spells a Cleric has defence wise (use the DIV focus book for added Gate power). Also having unholy aura to avoid stun ect helps also. If you could also start your stats out with 14 DEX instead of STR (since you get STR added at leg level) it would help him when he jumps in the middle of the mobs.
If I was going to build a BlackGaurd with 50 levels I would make him more of a tankish one putting at least 40 into STR for Crit Immune.
If I was going to make a turner it would be more in Ford Perfects version of adding Cleric with the one level Monk. drop wpn focus's and epic prowess and add extra turning and some other feats. With a HC Race I would not go 50 levels Blackguard but make a turner with more cleric levels that's my recomendation.
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Post by MightyKhan on May 17, 2010 10:31:08 GMT
# turns depends on CHA mod mostly base is 3 add CHA mod for 33 extra turning adds 6(?) total 39
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Post by Onyx [SL] on May 17, 2010 14:47:00 GMT
Just saw this about the Cleric buffs didn't last long on what i was thinking a turner would be so Ford Perfect reincarnated it to this. Going all BG. I still think a Pharlan would be the best race for the Black Guard thou. highergroundpoa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=prestigeblackguard&thread=15921I tried to build me one today going 9 cleric/1 monk (take 5 hide)/22 black guard/8 cleric I then replaced all the fighter feats with things like blind fight/spell penetration focus's/metamagic extend spell/hardiness I didn't put the stats in the right spot so probably screwed it up some how cause when I went over to the orc to turn him in the training area it just stood there with no effect. Never built a turner so guess I don't know what I'm doing lol hmm did some research and found out why Leezard built it this way a bit. If you want divine shield you have to have: Prerequisite: turn undead, charisma 13+, strength 13+, power attack
Specifics: The character may spend one of his turn undead attempts to add his charisma bonus to his armor class for a number of rounds equal to the charisma bonus.
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Post by Onyx [SL] on May 18, 2010 9:09:19 GMT
The more and more I look into making a black guard turner the more I find I've been going down the wrong path. If I would go 19 levels of Cleric I wouldn't have very powerful cleric buffs. Most things are based on Caster Levels ect. Unless your a quisiclass where you can combine it you might as well just make 10 levels of a class adding feats to gain the prestege class then go 50 all the way. For the HC race I would go this route with Divine shield as extra protection since your not getting any monk AC. I would also drop the weapon feats and add the extra feats needed for turning (extra turning feat) and others needed like Toughness ect.
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Post by Onyx [SL] on May 19, 2010 7:27:20 GMT
*Moved build to different spot*
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Post by jonuhey on May 19, 2010 11:51:53 GMT
Looking to your build onyx, and I cant see why you would prefer that over a pure or splashed cleric turner. For clerics you have gate to soak damage, have epic spells, have party buffs, etc. For BG you get only +4 cha/str. The only reason I could see a pure BG turner that starts with lots of 8 stats (what I would change for a toon without gate especially and that needs to be in the front line at least for a few rounds) is that him would get rapier wit and rapier focus for the 20 unresistable damage on hit.
Dont take extra turning, coil of grabduk is good and have it already and its kinda easy to find them these days with randomized boosted loot.
You really dont need any save feats, with that high cha everything will be way over the top.
I wouldnt get extend spell as well, I think the most important spell for that is death ward for extended critical immunity if you have 40str, but as you dont I would drop it completely.
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Post by Onyx [SL] on May 19, 2010 12:44:49 GMT
I do have the coil of grabduk so I won't have to take the extra turn feat. Your right I really need to print this out and redo it. Probably add Legendary spell penetration and skill focus's in either discipline or even parry if I have enough skill points to throw into it. I'm not going to add any save feats but I will keep the toughness. Not going to worry about a weapon thou just concentrate on make a good turner on this one. I may go with a different race and move blind fight to another slot.
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Post by gandoron on May 19, 2010 13:29:33 GMT
I would splash at least 2 pal for complete fear imm. Is there much of a drop between 10 to 8 levels of cleric?
-G
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Post by jonuhey on May 19, 2010 13:36:58 GMT
I would splash at least 2 pal for complete fear imm. Is there much of a drop between 10 to 8 levels of cleric? -G Yes, if you splash at least one pal in that, you lose 2 Turner Level, what is already low on this, 58 not counting domain bonuses, and will become 56. And as turners has only a 1d8 dice on top of TL, it really hurts. Fear immune is good, but not really needed on this one, and you can always use the dulv ammy if needed.
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Post by gandoron on May 19, 2010 16:26:01 GMT
I have a 10 pal/19bg/1cl smiter with stunning ability. Splashing 2 Pal doesn't cost you any TP or turning level. the calculation is "A turner's turner level is equal to their cleric level. In addition, if the turner has at least 3 levels in Paladin or Blackguard, 2 less than their number of Paladin and Blackguard levels are added to the character's turner level. Further, if the character has Smite Good or Smite Evil uses remaining and the Planar Turning feat, a Smite use will be expended and the 2-level penalty for Paladin or Blackguard will not be applied. Legendary levels count as turner levels, if the control class is Cleric, Paladin or Blackguard. Turner level is further increased by certain cleric domains." highergroundpoa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=info&action=display&thread=9518So BG and Pal levels are added first, then -2 (unless a smite is used). Those extra 2 bg don't give you that much. I'd go 2 pal. I've tested this and the calculation is Cleric L + (BG + Pal)/2 -G
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Post by leezard on May 19, 2010 17:40:34 GMT
sry guys ive been busy in rl and my monitor is giving me issues atm so i havent had a chance to check back here. trying stay away from the monk splash since it drops TL and this is a turner so need 13 srt for cleave bg pre req
the reason there is no extra turning feat in the build is this is a reinc so i got a couple belts for that feat
smite feats taken pre lLL also add 1 srt (origanly wanted 40 srt and max cha could not find a way to make that happen) hopefully i will have enough srt to stand most of the srt kd checks the wep feats r so im not so totaly usless between turns and just standing there flatfooted since i wont be casting many spells i might git lukcy and do a little damage any thoughts on the shield with wep vs the dual weilding
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Post by jonuhey on May 19, 2010 20:07:26 GMT
so I can make a cleric36/pal2/bg2 and still be able to have 60TL (without adding domain bonus)? Edit: changed class breakdown, was wrong before
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Post by gandoron on May 19, 2010 21:12:11 GMT
Do you want to have this be a cleric turner or BG turner. Leg BG CC get +4 cha in leg levels. Clerics do not. If you are going cleric control class, I'd just make a pure turner. C Pal BG 38/2 and 36/2/2 and 10/36/2 will all have -2 turning power = 58. Unless you burn a smite, which you can do 1 or 3 (with extra smiting) times per rest.
-G
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Post by leezard on May 20, 2010 0:58:59 GMT
ideal was a bg turner since id run two pure builds through hell allready, i was rdy or a change id be open to the pally splash was unshure how that would work since each required a diffrent alinments out of curiosity how u think a 8 2 30 ( is this possible unshure atm) would stack up in comparison ? specificly tl and melee stuff from including 2 pal vs more cleric levels
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