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Post by Slayer on Aug 20, 2004 1:05:57 GMT
I think you all are missing the point. PP'ing has no downside for the thief. It like getting a $5 fine for killing your neighbor. "Oh, okay, you caught me. Here's the $5". This becomes very unbalanced and makes the game much less attractive to those non-thieves. This is one of the reasons I left World of Iniquity; they became completely over-run by thieves. It was no use trying to get well-equipped characters, you would just get pp'ed. The thieves even got as bold as saying "Don't come to the Guanlet (a high level area) unless you want to be picked." They would hang out in the most desirable areas and basically prevent others from adventuring. They would form bands and if you caught and killed one (hard because they had the BEST equipment), the other 4-5 would jump you, kill you and take even more equipment. Tehy would continully rez, pp and kill you. It was NOT fun. I hope HG's PoA does not go down the same path because I enjoy playing here, I can totally see how that would not be fun. I would like to think that that behavior would certainly be prohibited on Higher Ground. I, for one, would not like to develop for a server that tolerates such behavior. Right now, as I build monsters, I am allowing for more and more pick-pocketing opportunities. I think the skill is best served against monsters, not other players. Having something pick-pocketed is going to happen. Just as PKing is going to happen. Both are monitored and gross abuse of both will be acted upon. We are not saying that we encourage pp'ing. We do, however, recogize it as a valid skill and do not want to limit players in any way. We are merely balancing trying to figure out how to defend against it, not how to justify pp'ing everyone you see. If you see gross abuse of pp'ing please don't hesitate to post it in the forum.
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Post by FormerAdmin on Aug 20, 2004 1:25:04 GMT
There is NOTHING wrong with Pickpocketing another player. Nothing at all!
It adds a whole dynamic to gameplay, and roleplay, and I have stated numerous times that I have no problem with it.
I agree that there needs to be something done about defending yourself/getting items back, and that is why I suggested the new script. And that is also why I suggest hiring Bounty Hunters (Assassins, only) to hunt down high class thieves.
So no, don't come here with complaints about being pickpocketed: I don't want to hear it. Give us a few days to get the new system working, and all of you will be able to get your stolen items back. (And do NOT worry, you will not drop stolen items when killed by creatures: ONLY Players) Now, if THAT is abused: feel free to post here.
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Post by Slayer on Aug 20, 2004 1:36:11 GMT
Aye, nor do I want ppl to post every time they are pick-pocketed. I ask only that abuse is reported.
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Post by FormerAdmin on Aug 20, 2004 1:38:32 GMT
Aye, nor do I want ppl to post every time they are pick-pocketed. I ask only that abuse is reported. i.e. Abuse like a thief pickpocketing from a character below his level.
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Post by PapaSmurf on Aug 20, 2004 2:41:35 GMT
I disagree with there not being egnough downfalls to being a pickpocketer. There are lots, the obvious one is XP and gold loss. When a player kills another player you loose XP and gold like you would if you respawned on death. This happens wheter you respawn or not, now if you do respawn after this you again loose the same amount. However this is usually the wisest option for a caught pickpocketer. Since the person that kills you about 50% of the time will res you and kill you again causeing even more and more XP and gold loss. This is the obvious downfall of being a pickpocketer. Some may say that is not that big of a deal and you can get a really good item. Well most of the time you dont get a really good item. In about a llittle more than a month of my pickpocketing career, Ive gotten like 4 decent items, and now with the new banking sytem I cant get bank notes, which were 2 of the good item i got One 1 million bank note, and one 5 million one. I also got like a lvl 20 item form someone it wasnt very good so I sold it. The best item I got was the Immortal Glaive and when I got it I about jumped out of my chair and danced around my house I was so excited So 4 items in about a month of heavy pickpocketing and Ive lost proably around 50,000 or so XP and well over a 4 million in gold. So the pay off is not that great, the reason I do it is to roleplay my character and its just a lot more fun and exciting for me than just hacking apart monster after monster. Now that is just the obvious disadvantage of the life of the pickpocketer. So not so obvious ones (espeically when you have the reputation that my character hack has) is that no one will party with you, so not only do you loose a lot of XP from getting killed, but you gain XP really slow, you dont get any XP for a succesfull pickpocket, even if they are 20 lvls higher than you..... Since this is not a solo based server, its hard to go around as a thief and get XP by yourself. Sometimes I get lucky and the select few (no more than 4 players) that will party with me are on at the same time I am. Another disadvantage of choosing a life of crime is that no one will help you if you need it, With all of my other characters if I gave a shout out for a res, if someone was around to res me they would come and do it, some would even drop what they are doing to res me. With Hack I dont get that kind of love In fact a lot of times players will try to sabatoge my slow going XP gaining process by spawning dozens of monsters (that I was having trouble with 4) and then leave saying "have fun" on their way out. Since I am usually alone when this happens I usually die, and since I dont get any love I dont get a res, so more loss of XP. So to say that consequences of pickpocketing do not fit the crime is ludacris, if it was just about the money I gain from pickpocketing I would have stoped long ago. Its just to damn fun. This may look like I'm complainging, it is not my intetion, I am just saying that a career in pickpocketing is a very risky one, there doesnt need to be more punishment put on top of it like public stoning and other ideas already expressed. Even if there were such laws put into effect i would just make 20 rouges because I like to roleplay them, it adds a whole nother exciment level to this game. I like the drop stolen loot on death script idea. Until it is in affect if you roleplay my killing after I rob you i will give you your item back if i havent sold or stashed it. What about my idea of taking away the text above your head when you find an item and the automatic disableing of the hide skill when this happens? This script is the only reason I get caught pickpocketing anymore.... I think that maybe having items above lvl 15 or 20 popping up would be good since as I stated earlier people pay more attention to there prized possesions. If I knew anythign about scripting I would look into but I dont There is already a place to sell stolen items in the thievs camp. Something that I think would be cool is a bunch of secret entrances to the thievs camp all over assecion, you would need some points in search to find them maybe have a higher DC for higher lvl areas. And maybe you need a token to enter them, or just the thievs key, you can only have one at a time as of now, well unless you steal one , and it gets used up when used. The thievs camp is the only real afe-haven for thievs to lay low. Except from evil bounty hunters. (which i love the idea for that, Ive already starting making one , to bad I cant hunt down that dastardly Hack. ;D
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Post by Slayer on Aug 20, 2004 3:03:44 GMT
That is exactly why you don't know anything about scripting. You've never looked into.
This is expressly forbidden in the server rules. Please notify us if this occurs again.
You want us to remove the one thing that gets you caught? err......I'm sure you meant something else and I'm not understanding. Give it to me again.
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Post by Slayer on Aug 20, 2004 4:16:48 GMT
n00b here. Is it possible to pp in a no-pvp zone?
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Post by Lokison on Aug 20, 2004 4:35:22 GMT
i think what he was saying is that if i remeber correctly in the combat info section there is a part that shows you rolling spot for anti pickpocket.
One thing i would like to see is more penalties for good players. I mean seriously here is a dragon napping in the cave doing nothing at all wrong and some goody two shoes paladin walk up and slits thier throat and steals their grandbaby's tuition money for dragon school. Though i would like to see some pvp battles between different factions. Say have everyone choose teams and restrict them to a set of adjacent areas. Each player can die once and last team standing gets some sort of prize.
Or tournements in the area.
Oh and is it valid to hurl 300 pound boulders as a chaotic evil stone golem from a screen and a half away at random people? i'm roleplaying my character ;D.
Smurf uf you ever need a rez gimme a call if i'm on just /tp "Lokiyn" i refuse to allow ic actions (pp) to influince my oc actions (rez call)
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Post by PapaSmurf on Aug 20, 2004 4:39:53 GMT
No you cant PP in a no PvP zone, also you cant PP party memebers in a party PvP zone, I'm not sure about full PvP, but I dont think you can there either.... No, Im not sure you all know what I'm talking about, im not talking about combat info. Im talking abou twhen your in the game and you pick up some loot, above your caracter it reads something like this "Found Unidentified Armor" This same thing happens when you pickpocket, when it does this it also makes your hide stop, and you turn visible. If your a shadow dancer its not a big deal you just hide again. If your just a rouge it really sucks. Now this happens even if you get a succesful pickpocket check, and they fail their spot chek. So most of the people I have stolen from know that I have stolen from them because of this, not because they actully spoted me with a spot skill, or because i failed my pickpocket check. Its because of the PoA script that makes finding an item say so above your character and you turn visible so tehy can see who it was So yeah I guesss I am asking you to take out the only thing that gets me caught, in the sense of role play however. That script is unique to PoA, in the regular NWN game you do not cancel hide when you pickpocket or pick up an item, and it doesnt give text saying you found such and such an item. I think puting it so that it only gives text when you find a lvl 15+ item would keep the game balanced for non-thieves, but it shouldnt make me cancel sneak. But its not a real big deal, I dont know how much work it would be to edit that... If its a lot dont worry about it, with lvls in shadow dancer you can somewhat avoid it. Mostly it would just prevent you being killed over stealing miniscule items that you wouldnt (in Pen and Paper) have really been caught stealing anyways. I have tried some scripting to disastourus results, and I can't seem to grasp it, sorry
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Post by Mesron on Aug 20, 2004 5:26:37 GMT
The problem I have with the pp'ing in NWN is there is not really any substantial down-side to getting caught. Ok, I kill you and you lose a little XP if you're not rez'ed. But in return you get an item that my character may have worked for days getting. The thief has little risk and potentially huge reward and the victim has big risk and little real justice. Interesting you bring that point up. We are currently working on a system of varying consequences related to criminal activity, to make things more interesting... Still working out the scripting for it so we'll see what happens.
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Post by Terren on Aug 20, 2004 13:19:17 GMT
I never argued that pp'ing was not a valid skill. I'm not asking for it to be banned. But for a chaotic-evil character killing anyone at any given time is very much in character and a valid skill, yet the DM's won't stand for that. I personally don't see the difference.
As far as losing 50,000 xp over a month's time, that proves my point. You said you did extremely heavy pp activity. Most characters of your level can pick up 50k experience in an hour in the web. Oh, I tremble at the thought of the punishment you have taken. How can you tolerate the injustice. Oh, wait it must be worth it to you, you are still doing it.
There, I always feel better after sarcasm.
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Post by Higan on Aug 20, 2004 13:30:26 GMT
a group might be able to get 50k xp in an hour at the web, but as he's said, nobody likes to party with theives so it takes a lot longer
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Post by Terren on Aug 20, 2004 13:37:03 GMT
He also says that there is a group of 3-4 people who will party with him that play a the same times he does. That's all you need.
Heck, I would party with him. At least then he can't pp me and I can keep an eye on him.
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Post by Higan on Aug 20, 2004 14:22:49 GMT
i still don't see what the huge problem with stealing is, so what if you lose an item, if its that hard to come by you should have kept it safer
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Post by Terren on Aug 20, 2004 14:47:57 GMT
Whether you have a problem with it or not is irrelevant to me. I have a problem with losing items that I may not have equipped at all times yet I need often enough to carry them with me.
Should I have upped my SPOT to reduce the problem? Probably, but I can’t. I reached level 40 before this became an issue and at the time I had better uses for my limited skill points. Besides, Hack/PapaSmurf says he would not get caught if it weren’t for coming out of hide when he acquires the item – so I’m not sure SPOT would help anyway.
Another problem is that it is very hard to successfully attack a fleeing character or monster even if you are faster. I have a hasted Monk who can’t land an attack against a non-hasted monster if the monster is moving away (many times it is chasing another character). You have to corner them or wait for them to stop. I’m surprised Hack has been killed as many times as he has. Bad planning on his part – no escape route.
BTW, the 4 million gold he has lost is not a penalty. He said he got a 5 million bank note, so he has already covered that loss. I would give him 4 million in exchange for the promise to never pp me. But, could I trust him? There is no honor among thieves.
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