zeph
Peasant
Posts: 3
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Post by zeph on Apr 17, 2006 22:27:58 GMT
Well its definatly getting to the point where im considering leaving myself, without repeating too much of what mishima and fusa have said i think its just starting to get rediculous - it's hard enough to get a party with so many idiots on the server without these new lvl limits.
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Post by holla on Apr 17, 2006 22:56:15 GMT
Hi again all. Fusa's point about LLs not being the same as the normal levels is valid I think, although as further updates are made this may become less apparent. The increase through LLs is not negligible by any means tho and virtually everything but casterlevel can be increased already. Considering this I'm suggesting a compromise, for the time being at least, set the nonLL chars to receive xp from LLs up-to 46 and all LL chars all in range of each other, i.e 34-46 and 41-60. The second reason I put this forward is due to the this.... That looks like a fantastic setup, I was even considering a level increase after 50 of somewhere around 500k, but I think your system is better. It would certainly even things out a bit. One of the key points against introducing the limits was the difficulty it would create in getting suitable parties together, the lower exponential xp gain would make this less of an issue as players would be in range of 60s earlier, the linear method would make this issue larger, all LLs being able to party together in immo only areas seems fine to me. I would add tho that if there is still concern with high LL chars carrying groups through lolth and immo run then the limit for the crown sanctum and abyss should be set to 46. All the best Holla . btw.... "Any thoughts on 12M?" - aye its 2M too high . I also prefer the linear increase and think that this system would help if decided as the way forward.
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Post by calad on Apr 17, 2006 23:21:59 GMT
I really dont like the idea of dropping the LL xp system to a megar 12 mil, but if thats the only way I can play my higher lvl chars, then so be it. That will just mean one of my rogues only needs about 500K till 60 and my tank will need 2 mil.
So now the question, what to do with Calad G since he's sitting over 20 mil. I suppose I could stuff him and hang him in Rips as a monument next to the adult entertainment LOL. Anyway just my 2 cents Calad
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 18, 2006 0:08:58 GMT
I posted this because people will still be carried through the immortal run, even with a party level limit...it doesnt cure the problem its just creates the problem of finding a party in the range to go. I don't see how that's connected to the age of the problem, but yes, I'm sure SOME carrying will still occur, since neither the pre-LL nor the post-LL party level limits are perfect - they are by nature and necessity approximations of the character's power, not exact measures. But suggesting that it won't cut back drastically on the problem is just silly, as our pre-LL limits have demonstrated day in day out. Of course, if you can come up with a better approximation, I'm all ears. That certainly hasn't been forgotten. Why else do you think the range was 50% broader? The thing is, they do increase a character's power substantially, and they are only going to do that to a greater extent as spells and class abilities are modified to account for them. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 18, 2006 0:17:16 GMT
I really dont like the idea of dropping the LL xp system to a megar 12 mil, but if thats the only way I can play my higher lvl chars, then so be it. That will just mean one of my rogues only needs about 500K till 60 and my tank will need 2 mil. So now the question, what to do with Calad G since he's sitting over 20 mil. I suppose I could stuff him and hang him in Rips as a monument next to the adult entertainment LOL. Anyway just my 2 cents Calad I did post a page or two back for asking for suggestions as to how to recompense ppeople who already had 60 the hard way...
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Apr 18, 2006 0:28:33 GMT
Hi again all. Fusa's point about LLs not being the same as the normal levels is valid I think, although as further updates are made this may become less apparent. The increase through LLs is not negligible by any means tho and virtually everything but casterlevel can be increased already. Considering this I'm suggesting a compromise, for the time being at least, set the nonLL chars to receive xp from LLs up-to 46 and all LL chars all in range of each other, i.e 34-46 and 41-60. The second reason I put this forward is due to the this.... That looks like a fantastic setup, I was even considering a level increase after 50 of somewhere around 500k, but I think your system is better. It would certainly even things out a bit. One of the key points against introducing the limits was the difficulty it would create in getting suitable parties together, the lower exponential xp gain would make this less of an issue as players would be in range of 60s earlier, the linear method would make this issue larger, all LLs being able to party together in immo only areas seems fine to me. I would add tho that if there is still concern with high LL chars carrying groups through lolth and immo run then the limit for the crown sanctum and abyss should be set to 46. All the best Holla . btw.... "Any thoughts on 12M?" - aye its 2M too high . I also prefer the linear increase and think that this system would help if decided as the way forward. I never 100% agreed with anyone on anything before, but this system sounds fun, and it looks like it would keep the challenge. I vote for the 10mil, and the system holla talks about.
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Post by ryancian on Apr 18, 2006 3:22:01 GMT
Funky, a possible suggestion for compensation of those who have either already reached 60, will soon reach 60, or some in those boats might be one of a loot compensation similar to the db token system you all had set up. Instead of db tokens, exp could be used to barter with a merchant. You could set up either existing items or possibly create new ones that could be worth whatever you all deem fit. A bit of an egocentric example: You've been searching for a nice longsword ;D . You make it so that when people achieve level 60, they get some sort of tag and any experience over that limit can go towards trading it in for items. The tag might help stop a problem with people trading in exp at level 58 and somehow deleveling to get an item, I don't know, just a thought. But, say you could get a dustbone longsword for... 2-3 mill exp, I dunno, like I said just an example. You'd have to be 60 to do it, and those with an ungodly amount of exp could trade that exp in. They feel their time wasn't wasted, the exp cap goes down, and everyone's happy. Maybe?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 18, 2006 3:28:08 GMT
I had something along the lines of an items for xp trade in mind. Only xp between the new level 60 cap and 17.5 would be tradeable, however, because the rest would've been done by the player without expectation of any further advancement or benefit - it isn't part of their 'loss', so to speak, caused by the drop in the cap.No tags, just dm de-experiencing you for whatever items. There would be a time limit of a week or so, to forestay too many races to get xp to qualify. Not sure abou what items would be appropriate, probably stuff that wouldnt be available to the server at large. Funky
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Post by hiryuu on Apr 18, 2006 4:06:43 GMT
One of the key points against introducing the limits was the difficulty it would create in getting suitable parties together, the lower exponential xp gain would make this less of an issue as players would be in range of 60s earlier, the linear method would make this issue larger On the flip side, a linear progression would keep them in range of mortals longer, and the exponential method would pull them too high sooner. The vast, vast minority of characters right now are level 58-60 (11.4M+ XP), so I would argue that optimizing for that case is part of the current problem. Those players are also the most likely to have other 'lowbie immortals' that they can switch to. Yes, that does mean you don't get to gather & wail your way through Ssithrak much any more, but I don't find that bad. I think the decline of challenge, in favor of grinding for loot and xp, has a lot to do with the 'downhill' perception. If you haven't played a character straight in awhile, I highly recommend it. No cash/loot drops, no pets, no rescues, and only random and store supplies (so you can't use foreknowledge to find all the good loot). When death is a distinct possibility, even the pre-LL stuff is quite fun.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Apr 18, 2006 4:57:27 GMT
I had something along the lines of an items for xp trade in mind. Only xp between the new level 60 cap and 17.5 would be tradeable, however, because the rest would've been done by the player without expectation of any further advancement or benefit - it isn't part of their 'loss', so to speak, caused by the drop in the cap.No tags, just dm de-experiencing you for whatever items. There would be a time limit of a week or so, to forestay too many races to get xp to qualify. Not sure abou what items would be appropriate, probably stuff that wouldnt be available to the server at large. Funky I think that could solve alot of the loot issues for the server. Installing a 60+ only vendor machine. The items are made for 60+ and are class specific, unless its a weapon. I say there should be a 60+ armor specifically made for pure class's, or close to pure. People could buy into getting some cool items by playing with groups and getting xp faster, atleast then they have something to look forward too even if the rolls suck. I know everyone has a week where there rolls just aren't even in the top 3 of 5. Always 4, or 5. This is a great idea but it looks like alot of work? * Make the items no trade? So that eventually they earn it, but never can trade or sell it.
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Post by chainlink on Apr 18, 2006 8:47:03 GMT
Now there's an idea I really like, an item dispenser for experience in excess of the level 60 limit with non-transferable things. Gives the uber chacaters something to aim for whilst not adding things that will overpower low levels with ridiculous items. Lets face it if you've made it to 60 you should be effectively a demi-god anyway and have items more powerful than mere immortals should be able to weild.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 18, 2006 8:54:37 GMT
@zero - You quoted my post, but did you READ it? I'm talking about DMs handing out items and docking xp for a one week period when the change hits. Not a store, and certainly nothing long-term. And I really can't imagine what 'loot issues' you think such items might solve. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 18, 2006 8:56:05 GMT
Now there's an idea I really like, an item dispenser for experience in excess of the level 60 limit with non-transferable things. Gives the uber chacaters something to aim for whilst not adding things that will overpower low levels with ridiculous items. Lets face it if you've made it to 60 you should be effectively a demi-god anyway and have items more powerful than mere immortals should be able to weild. New items will be coming once ILR is removed in favor of scripted ILR. But from a STORE? Please.
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Post by Xcercs on Apr 18, 2006 12:37:37 GMT
sorry if this has already been mentioned or discussed im on lunch break and so dont have much reading time but i was considering a new way the LL party could work providing that the script will allow this...
IF all members of the party are in the SAME guild why not turn off the LL party limit . since most guild members are active and helpful also guilds are there to help people and friends this seems somewhat logical as long as all members are of same guild..
this will promote not only for people to think about guilds (something many just dotn entertain) but also promote good nature for the HG community since if you are serious of making lvl 60 then you definately need to be nice and respected ... on the flipside if this was to be considered by DM team then something would need to be added to stop players guild hopping to keep in parties maybe a script of 1 guild change per reset or similar i know for a fact that if i had a guild and a member left just to get xp then wanted to come back i wouldnt allow it as that means i was only his "friend" when i was useful to him for the exp he needed.
as i say i am on lunch at the moment but if any1 would like to dscus my ideas more please PM me and i would love to continue.
as for the LL exp brackets .. just remember people they are called legendary for a reason hence why the xp needed is so much of people could make LL in say a months playing then the main differance from making lvl 40 and lvl 60 is not what i considered..
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Post by Ironfang on Apr 18, 2006 14:11:31 GMT
I agree that the items given to the O-60's (original 60's) should be unique & custom built and not just a DB weapon that they can prob easily get on their own now.
I wonder if a system where a 10 level limit was enforced from 34-44 until Immo is achieved then all Immos could party together would work? Now having a level 44 or multiple 44s on a Lloth / Immo run will still make it easier or maybe too easy but would that change if you lost Immortality in Crown Sanctum and Abyss? Would that take away the excitement from the other areas? What about an increased Fugue timer in those areas? Getting Fugued out of Immo run should happen more often to increase the drama.
Also a long time agao someone mentioned rescripting Lloth fight to target Immos with some sort of special attack that strikes them dead or paralyzes them so that the non-immos must do more of the work. Perhaps Immos can't enter her lair until she is defeated, so they could help bring you there but you are on your own after that.
I know all of these suggestion have inherent problems with balance / fun / and scripting, I am just throwing out ideas that hopefully someone else can build on.
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