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treant
Dec 11, 2006 20:50:41 GMT
Post by jvnorris on Dec 11, 2006 20:50:41 GMT
i understand the whole rpg aspect, but tbh this is an action based server, and its not like i'm asking to for ultra-speed for them. as for your claim that this deficiency is minor, i think you will find that slow speed is one of the biggest downfalls of a subrace short of stat penalties. the treant is strong, but i am speaking from personal experience when i say that being as much of a target as a treant is, lack of speed removes his ability to maneuver or even run away. and on a server such as this, that means death. Ok I know I'm pouring more gasoline on myself for my bonfire but.. If all you think about is the action aspect then as Cathedral Pointed out you do have the wrong class and maybe should not play a Treant. If in your experiance you need to run away that much you have either A. made a bad build or B. gotten in over your characters head. You knew going in when you seleceted the character that they are slow. so you should have planned accordingly. As Phal pointed out there is a great way to play the class. and it has its uses. Yes I did say that there are other deficiencies that can be worse then slow speed. IE. since you are a tree why not have a major fire vulnerability that cant be overcome? The would prob be worse then being slow. Not to mention Stat hits too. The Ent seems like a very good character if you build and play it right. By comparison to other disadvantages this is minor. IF you are in the right party with a good build you should not have to worry about running ( or walking in a treants case) away. By what you just said I will once again deferre to Cathedral's statment that Treant just is not for you maybe you should look into another race overall and leave treant alone
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treant
Dec 11, 2006 21:24:58 GMT
Post by thedomicron on Dec 11, 2006 21:24:58 GMT
unlike many players on this server, i don't feel the need to create casters who are tanks. i understand that casters have great defensive spells, but if you're REALLY going to come at this from a role playing point of view, casters, should ALWAYS be moving away from the action because how believable is a caster who can stand in the front ranks oblivious to damage?
moving around is important because of situations like backspawns and the movement of enemies, i hardly spent my battle running helplessly around, but if you were caught by a bad group, then there was little you could do to escape.
as for vulnerability to fire, i fully believe that a 100% vulnerability to fire would not pose too big of a problem for treants, considering that elemental shunt alone accounts for close to 75% of most most druids fire resistance, all it would take are a couple of rings, or one ring and some boots to completely negate it.
you say that i'm in over my head or that the treant can be playable with its huge gains, but the bonuses to treant are not much better than thri-kreen. the bonus to strength is negligable, and while the bonus to constitution is nice, the bonus to wisdom is only one dc higher than that of thri-kreen.
my point here is that, yes of course you CAN play a treant, but its slow speed take a subrace which has great bonuses and reduces it to about the same level as a non-ur secret subrace. there should be advantages for its rarity and currently i feel there are none. +5 to main stat puts it along side rakshasa or illithid
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treant
Dec 11, 2006 22:38:44 GMT
Post by Grudge on Dec 11, 2006 22:38:44 GMT
Heres my take on the while thing. Just make treants a [cencored] tag along with Rakshasa and Illithid. Personally i see treant at about the same lvl as tho two. And definatly i see Rakshasa as being a fair bit more powerful then treant.
just my $0.03
~grudge
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treant
Dec 12, 2006 9:27:15 GMT
Post by chainlink on Dec 12, 2006 9:27:15 GMT
as for vulnerability to fire, i fully believe that a 100% vulnerability to fire would not pose too big of a problem for treants, considering that elemental shunt alone accounts for close to 75% of most most druids fire resistance, all it would take are a couple of rings, or one ring and some boots to completely negate it. I'm not sure it works like this, I think you'll find if you manage to get 100% (not RDD immunity) to fire you will still take normal damage from fire attacks as this just cancels out the extra 100% you would have been taking. So in effect you need 200% immunity to fire. Mind you I think Treant actually only has a 25% vunerability to fire now.
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treant
Dec 12, 2006 20:28:21 GMT
Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 12, 2006 20:28:21 GMT
That's correct, all % immunities other than the RDDs are additive/subtractive in nature. Funky
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treant
Dec 13, 2006 1:35:17 GMT
Post by thedomicron on Dec 13, 2006 1:35:17 GMT
i understand that treants need 200% immunity to fire, and i'm saying that's easy to do.
elemental shunt = 73%. so really you only need 125%and a tiny bit of elemental resist. rings w/ 50, 75, or even 100% fire, elemental amulet, everwatchful eye, coal walker boots for 50/- resist, or folds of the brazier cloak with 50/- fire resist.
keep in mind that while you are covering for fire, gear such as the boots of bastion, legendary bracers of resilliance and such can help to cover all the other elements which you lack and can therefore focus on fire. bottom line, is that gear can cover all of the downfalls of the subrace, except the speed. (making it the most significant penalty)
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treant
Dec 13, 2006 5:46:21 GMT
Post by greenlion420 on Dec 13, 2006 5:46:21 GMT
Bottom line Bro......
Trees just don't run.....
Get over it.
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treant
Dec 13, 2006 10:04:40 GMT
Post by jvnorris on Dec 13, 2006 10:04:40 GMT
1. Overall point. you should not play treant as your play style obviously does not plan in advance for the problem that you cant move quickly so just choose another race.
2. Read my post again. I said a significant Vulnerability that you could not overcome and I was using as an example of a disadvantage that could be worse then just being slow. Myself as a table top DM i would offer a person the choice if you REALLY wanted to move faster that badly then fine your living wood deal with the fact that you cant beat fire. and by significant i'm talking way more then 100%.
3. The ONLY viable soloutin to this would be to make Treant just a secret race and not UR and that would prob tick alot of people off.
You have said you dont belive they should be Tank casters you are trying to play the race outside the common average scope of character play. If you want to try something different be prepared for the fact that it will not work. To make up for any character deficiency you have to put time and effort into planning and preparing the character for what may come. If the team were to remove every deficiencty simple because it made the race/class harder to play the game would get boring quickly.
I have partied with quite a few Treants in the past and have seen them work very well. As a matter of fact i would hoipe to see more of them. as whomever was playing always did a great job. and I myself knowign they wer a bit slower always looked out for them and played guard with my mellers or archers to keep them safe while they laid down a whomping. The problem here is not with the race its with your style of play. A good build wiyht a good player and a good Party can very efectivily handle any part of the game. Instead of running headstrong into an area Maybe get with a group or ask the party to take it a little slower and be more strategic about things. Even from a Roleplaying aspect not just action that is very viable with the treant as considering they are supposed to be EXTREAMLY old. they would already have an idea of what to expect out of most of the areas they go through and be prepared in advance.
So from action or RPG aspect Strategy is still very important and if you have the Treant which is a UR race and you obviously have to hunt for it first and get through alot of the game. there should be little to surprise you. so you should be able to Build plan and strategize accordingly. If you cant/don't fell like doing that then just move on to another race that fits your play style better.
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treant
Dec 13, 2006 10:47:05 GMT
Post by chainlink on Dec 13, 2006 10:47:05 GMT
Well you're not going to be seeing more of them as any sane builder will either use Fallen Angel (or possibly Doppleganger) to get the best out of a Cleric/Druid. Yes please sir, I want to be the one trailing behind everybody else on fire. Why not paint a big target on me with "I'm slow and flammable" in large flashing letters. OK flammable is possibly a bit strong as I've already mentioned the fire vulnerability was changed to 25%, easily singed is probably a better description.
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treant
Dec 14, 2006 1:45:27 GMT
Post by greenlion420 on Dec 14, 2006 1:45:27 GMT
if you have the Treant which is a UR race and you obviously have to hunt for it first and get through alot of the game. You'd think so, but really there's no telling. With the recent McDupe scandal it could've been acquired another way. No, I'm not accusing anyone of anything.....just pointing this out.
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treant
Dec 14, 2006 7:05:10 GMT
Post by jvnorris on Dec 14, 2006 7:05:10 GMT
if you have the Treant which is a UR race and you obviously have to hunt for it first and get through alot of the game. You'd think so, but really there's no telling. With the recent McDupe scandal it could've been acquired another way. No, I'm not accusing anyone of anything.....just pointing this out. As true as that may be.. The fact of the excuse of backspawns being dangerouse and stuff and not being able to run away fast enough. Even without knowing exactly where everything is his playstyle just does not account for the fact that the race is slow. Just like a half white dragon (which has a VERY hard flame vulnerability to overcome but is still a very playable race) you need to plan ahead and use creative thought to make it through dangerouse areas. Just becuase this is an Action server does not mean all aspects of roleplay should be thrown out. Yes the treant is not as good as many other races. But its not bad or horrible either it just takes creative thinking to make a good build and play it well. Alot of people do not want to do this which is their choice but you cant blame the race for that. As the old addage goes (I think) Its a poor craftsman that blames his tools. IF going in you know its a slow race its obviouse you need to buff up big time becuase once you get in a fight you better be ready to stay the duration. heres an interesting idea BTW. A treant shadowdancer with HIPS ( can it be done ) it would certainly make excaping if need be a little easier but then again imagine a tree that just vanishes before your eyes.. That would be neat and maybe a different route to take the trees on. A whole band of Rouge Trees... WHUMP ON ents.. WHump on!! then fade into nothingness..
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treant
Dec 14, 2006 9:26:21 GMT
Post by chainlink on Dec 14, 2006 9:26:21 GMT
I'm afraid the Half-Dragon White comment is not true as this sub-race ideally lends itself to RDD builds giving you fire immunity and 65% cold immunity which is a nice mix indeed (I know I built one a while ago). I can't think of any build where slow movement would be a benefit and as there are other options available people are not going to use it. As for the McDupeing thing, you'll find that you get an impressively high number of annoying UR sub-races in your travels (well I seem to anyway!). In recent runs I've managed to get several Treant and Dragon-Blooded books and missed out on all the Planewalker and BUR ones. I even gave a Treant away to somebody who'd had a vault accident as I'd had two of them for a while and nobody seemed the slightest bit interested in trading for them.
Guess what, rooting through the desert and I find an UR woot, hang on its another Treant "£$%!
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treant
Dec 15, 2006 0:34:50 GMT
Post by thedomicron on Dec 15, 2006 0:34:50 GMT
i could accept it if it just didn't fit my playstyle. if the way i played druids just wasn't compatable. but frankly, i don't see ANY treants. at all. i'm saying it'd be nice to have them make an appearance.
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treant
Dec 15, 2006 2:06:23 GMT
Post by cathedralmaster on Dec 15, 2006 2:06:23 GMT
i could accept it if it just didn't fit my playstyle. if the way i played druids just wasn't compatable. but frankly, i don't see ANY treants. at all. i'm saying it'd be nice to have them make an appearance. Friends don't let friends play trees.
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treant
Dec 15, 2006 2:37:16 GMT
Post by cathedralmaster on Dec 15, 2006 2:37:16 GMT
You'd think so, but really there's no telling. With the recent McDupe scandal it could've been acquired another way. I remember about three months ago or so when fallen angel was a status symbol - Miles I think had it and it was just "Wow, dude! You have Fallen Angel!" Then suddenly, everyone had fallen angel. I was in parties of 4 or 5 people were everyone was an FA. In all the runs I've done, I've seen only one, maybe two FA books drop. Really makes you wonder.
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