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Post by lala on May 17, 2007 10:33:25 GMT
I have been thinking about this for some time, and it seems quirky to me that players using most of the divine/spell/ability shields take kickback when they are hit. So in most cases it becomes impossible to use these type of shields, especially in Hells.
I am not sure how much difference it would make to game balance having the kb disabled from this situation, or even if it is possible.
So if it is decided it is too powerful, a possible solution could be 2 new commands that effect Divine shields/acid sheath and elemental shield/bard sonic/ any others that I cannot think of. !kboff - switches off damage from the player's shields, balance maintained as spawns do not take damage and also this stops kickback. !kbon - switches on damage from the player's shields, so spawns can be hurt but also kickback occurs.
Cheers Lala
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Post by thedomicron on May 17, 2007 12:45:05 GMT
I like it so you don't have mages trying to tank, and smart casters have to decide when to use it and when the risk is tooo high
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Post by velikibaatezu on May 17, 2007 14:04:32 GMT
I like it so you don't have mages trying to tank, and smart casters have to decide when to use it and when the risk is tooo high Not sure what you are trying to say there? Mage would tank if he/she wouldnt take extra kickback due to elemental shields? I think its cool idea lala, people use elemental shield and acid sheath for immunites rather then dmg i feel. If that can be done without to much hassle.
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 17, 2007 14:32:15 GMT
It probably can, but I personally like the idea that a bonus comes with consequences.
Too many abilities to shut off the consequences of effects, leads to a benefit without a sacrifice, and it makes things too easy IMO.
Also, it forces casters or meleers with their effect - to *think* about what to use and when to use it. That can't be a bad thing.
As a caster, I personally manage just fine deciding when to use, and when not to use, damage shields. And I'm doing well enough so far at melee with them (my Lash has Divine Shield) - so having it forces me to learn what monsters do X damage on hit, if the zone composition is worth it to use the effect to reduce divine damage taken, at the risk of getting more other kickback.
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Post by velikibaatezu on May 17, 2007 14:38:47 GMT
It probably can, but I personally like the idea that a bonus comes with consequences. Too many abilities to shut off the consequences of effects, leads to a benefit without a sacrifice, and it makes things too easy IMO. But there is sacrifice, you dont do dmg either ;D
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Post by velikibaatezu on May 17, 2007 14:49:09 GMT
Also, it forces casters or meleers with their effect - to *think* about what to use and when to use it. That can't be a bad thing. Keep in mind, bloodfire mage and pm with elemental shield/death armor acctivated for a certain fight those would be good at are stuck with those very shields which last rather long, so if you use some shield that will help in battle you cant just shut it off for onother situation you find it bad to have at.And thats the idea of the post, to get more flexibilty on deciding whether shield is usefull or not for the given situatuion.
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Post by sabregirl on May 17, 2007 16:13:53 GMT
There are plenty of tanks that use damage shields, pallys and bane knights being some of them. When playing my bane knight I keep them up almost all the time due to the immunity they provide. I find it's better to simply move/stay away from any critters with area KB. Turning the damage from a shield on and off doesn't make much sense. And generally if you're in a situation where you shouldn't have the shield on . . .you get killed rather fast which shuts it off. -S
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Post by velikibaatezu on May 17, 2007 16:25:24 GMT
Its not just aoe kb critters, not nice when hamatula backspawns on a poor lil sorc with only 1 magic ring equiped, its attacks hurt plenty and now add x 2-3 kb due to shields and you get pwned, so would be cool to be able to turn down dmgs for immunity only, again thats 2 bladed sword, it wont make you take x2-3 kb but it wont dmg spawns either. Tanks are diferent story, they shouldnt get hit most of time so even if they'd have 5 or more dmg shields acctivated that should not be issue for them.
Edit; just to clarify, suggestion is not to turn down dmg shield completly, but its ofensive part via commands like !XY whatever.You would keep 50% immunity to cold/fire for an example
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Post by archmage on May 17, 2007 16:31:52 GMT
Its not just aoe kb critters, not nice when hamatula backspawns on a poor lil sorc with only 1 magic ring equiped, its attacks hurt plenty and now add x 2-3 kb due to shields and you get pwned, so would be cool to be able to turn down dmgs for immunity only, again thats 2 bladed sword, it wont make you take x2-3 kb but it wont dmg spawns either. Tanks are diferent story, they shouldnt get hit most of time so even if they'd have 5 or more dmg shields acctivated that should not be issue for them. Edit; just to clarify, suggestion is not to turn down dmg shield completly, but its ofensive part via commands like !XY whatever.You would keep 50% immunity to cold/fire for an example Hmm I want my cake and eat it too.
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Post by lala on May 17, 2007 17:16:12 GMT
The problem Delf/Sabre is that spawns are quite a bit random these days. Also its not fun waiting 5 minutes for your elemental shield or whaterver shield you have active so you can move foward to bits where party area KB occurs; consider infernals, etc. I wouldnt even like to try testing a shield where fumes/clouds generate for concern it will wipe the group.
The suggestion did take into consideration balance, and a way that classes can use their abilities more often if they so desired. After all isnt it about making it more fun, not waiting for those brief occasions an ability can be used?
And regarding keeping them up all the time, well thats a bit strange because my mele with 128ac and 85% conceal cannot use elemental shield that often due to KB to either myself or the group.
Lala
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Post by gruntgruntson on May 17, 2007 17:19:43 GMT
If the kb-effect of damage shields is causing grief, and the damage from damage shields is minimal, then would it be possible/acceptable to remove the damage entirely, making them purely defensive effects?
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Post by lala on May 17, 2007 17:23:31 GMT
Its not just aoe kb critters, not nice when hamatula backspawns on a poor lil sorc with only 1 magic ring equiped, its attacks hurt plenty and now add x 2-3 kb due to shields and you get pwned, so would be cool to be able to turn down dmgs for immunity only, again thats 2 bladed sword, it wont make you take x2-3 kb but it wont dmg spawns either. Tanks are diferent story, they shouldnt get hit most of time so even if they'd have 5 or more dmg shields acctivated that should not be issue for them. Edit; just to clarify, suggestion is not to turn down dmg shield completly, but its ofensive part via commands like !XY whatever.You would keep 50% immunity to cold/fire for an example Hmm I want my cake and eat it too. Sorry Arch but it seems a bit quirky that you can take their kickback because they took yours. With this logic it should go on infinitely until one or both is dead, hence why it doesnt make sense. Either it should do it until one or the other is dead, or not at all... The suggestion I provided was a compromise to this situation. Lala
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Post by velikibaatezu on May 17, 2007 19:40:53 GMT
Ah arch but you voted sorc as weakest class , this would help em a bit ;D ;D ;D
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Post by nohmask on May 17, 2007 19:51:33 GMT
The mages tanking issue is certainly an important one...the reason why one other popular server can sometimes get dull for a mage is that you find the most effective, and often only way, to take something down quickly is to put your 90% immune/20 resist to everything immune gear on and just stand there with shields ablazing.
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Post by velikibaatezu on May 17, 2007 20:17:38 GMT
maybe noah, but quite far from idea posted, lala asked for option to turn down dmg caused by elemental shield = you cant kill anything with shield in that case.
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